Spooky Vinyl, Universal Monster Masks, & A Life In Latex
                              Bending The Ear of Don Post Studios Renaissance Man Verne Langdon!
                                                 Interview By Terry L. DuFoe
                                               Opening Written By Verne Langdon


Rarely in the annals of the Entertainment Industry has one person been credited with doing so much with so little. He is an
icon of light, a beacon in the night, a seer with incredible foresight. Verne Langdon is an enigma, a renaissance man, and 
an influence on the music business second only to Paul Williams, Ozzy Osbourne, and Anson Weeks and his Orchestra. He's 
also very tall, ruggedly handsome, incredibly kind, remarkably youthful in appearance and presence, and he always smells 
good too. Always. Here is a man second to no other. Third, fourth, fifth, yes, but certainly not second. When queried for 
an appropriate epitaph for himself, he replied simply "He must be down there someplace because the ground is all lumpy."
I could go on interminably, but I think you get the idea. When Terry DuFoe and his stunning daughter Tiffany asked me to 
write some kind of introduction about me for their interview so they wouldn't have to write it themselves, my first 
reaction was unprintable, and my second reaction was just as unprintable. How can you write about yourself? You can't. 
At least I can't. Not objectively. It's taken me most of my life to get this way, and I have no intention of changing any 
of that now, and even if I wanted to, I couldn't. I don't have the kind of money it takes to make that happen. Never did, 
never will. 

About the only thing I can say truthfully is that all of my life I've tried to do my best. I was raised (by two perfectly 
normal parents - what happened?!!) to believe if something is worth doing at all, it's worth doing right. Half of the 
people I've met in my life think I'm nuts for approaching things that way, and the other half of the people I've met in 
my life walk the other way when I approach them, which just goes to show you what the other half thinks about me. I don't 
know which half you are, but either way, I hope you enjoy the interview that Terry did with me. That is, IF you decide to 
read it. If not, it's probably just as well. I guess you wouldn't have liked it anyway. I haven't done that much with my 
life, in my humble opinion. In my NOT-so-humble opinion I'm Hell-on-Wheels, but I try not to give that opinion too often. 
It isn't very popular, and whenever I do give it, even more people walk the other way. I've seen more backs in my life 
than a chiropractor, which should give you some idea of just how many people walk the other way when I approach them. 
I'll tell you this much: I lost count a long time ago. But be that as it may, (and I've never found it to be otherwise,) 
I'll just keep on truckin' 'til the bus pulls up for me. I'm having an awful lot of fun doing what I do, and yes, I don't 
do it for YOU! But, if you just so happen to have an awful lot of fun with what I'm doing, that makes me feel very good - 
all warm and fuzzy inside. But then that's what I get for swallowing caterpillars. 

Are your eyes tired yet from reading this? I hope they use a big-enough font when they go to press, or I won't be able to 
read it myself. But then, I may decide not to read it. If you don't read it and I don't read, there really won't be any 
point in their running the interview. So one of us should read it, and I hope it's you, because I already know what's in 
the interview, and once you know what's coming next, it's no fun. Let me just say that I don't get interviewed very often,
so if I sound a little too self-centered, it's probably only because I am. One thing's for sure: I've never met anybody 
like me, and hope never to again in my lifetime. Your lifetime, maybe. But definitely not mine. One of me is quite enough,
and maybe even too much.

Terry: *brings out Verne's record "An Evening With Boris Karloff & His Friends"*

Verne: Oh they're dragging out my past! Ha ha!

Terry: One of the records that we're playing this week on Cult Radio A-Go-Go! is this record right here!

Verne: Oh my Gosh!

Terry: I'm sure you've seen this before!

Verne: Yeah! I wish you could've seen the original cover we had for that. It was in black and white, and had an ACTUAL
picture of Boris Karloff as the Monster on it. But Decca wanted something in color, so we gave them this one with the 
Post mask on it.

Terry: You were talking earlier about the Munsters rock group. *brings out Munsters record* Would that be this one?

Verne: That's right.

Terry: I thought it was.

Verne: Yeah, it was.

Terry: In an interview I read with you, you were mentioning The Munsters' single. 

Verne: Isn't that funny! And there they are with the masks on. Wow! I don't think I ever saw this. If I did, I forgot it.

Terry: The music's not that bad.

Verne: No they're pretty good. They did a song, I think, called "Make It Go Away".

Terry: Yeah, it's surf rock. That's on there.

Verne: I loved that song. That was how they were going to put them out on the road, wearing those appliance-masks, but 
they only did a few dates I think.

Terry: So they actually went out dressed up?

Verne: They went out dressed up and made up with those foam rubber masks. They weren't latex masks, they were foam rubber. 

Terry: So they couldn't talk Fred Gwynne into going out dressed up and performing?

Verne: No way... I think Gwynne probably could sing but I don't think Yvonne De Carlo could. Maybe she could too, I don't
know. She's still around.

Terry: Well she put out singles. We've got two songs by her in the show this week.

Verne: Well there you go! Ok then I take it back. She could sing. She'll come and find me and kick my ass!

Terry: *Laughs* Now what I wanted to ask you is, as you see I've got a few pages here, so how much time do you have?

Verne: I have time. What is today?

Terry: Monday.

Verne: I have until Wednesday! *Laughs*

Terry: *Laughs* The first thing I wanted to ask you about was, I didn't have any idea you were related to Harry Langdon?

Verne: Yes, well, I am! 

Terry: In what way?

Verne: Ok, his father and my father or his grandfather and my grandfather are second cousins. Something like that, and 
it goes on from there. We're not close. I mean, he didn't call me and ask me what he should do for a picture or anything 
like that because he was older than I am and passed away long ago. He may have died before I was born... when he heard I 
was coming! *Laughs* "I don't want to be here for that!" But yeah, we are related, my father told me. I think I would 
never let him finish this story. I was outside before he'd get it finished. It meant something to him, it didn't mean 
anything to me. Nothing ever does until years later. Then you appreciate things your parents tried to tell you, and 
then it's too damn late to do anything about it. 

Terry: It's too bad that silent films were so long ago. I'd imagine it came up a lot in conversation?

Verne: Wouldn't you have thought?

Terry: You could've had a last name like Nicholson.

Verne: Well you were close. Nichols was my mother's maiden name and Red Nichols of Red Nichols and the Five Pennies 
fame, the Dixieland band, was her brother, so I had that kind of music in my background, which is probably where Bork 
came from. Bork loves to play Dixieland. 

Terry: I understand that your interest in monster movies stems way back from when you were a kid?

Verne: When I was a kid! I wanted to see Bela Lugosi and my parents didn't want me to see him. My mother would not let 
me see monster movies because she didn't think that I should be "feeding my mind on them," and now that I'm an adult I 
agree with her. Shame on all of you! But I wanted to, so my dad snuck me in one time. We went to see a spook show in 
Davis where my aunt lived, Dad's sister. We went to see "Francisco's Midnight Spook Frolic" and the movie playing with 
it was "Frankenstein Meets The Wolfman". The first time I saw Bela Lugosi was wearing Frankenstein make-up. He looked 
funny then and he looks funny now as Frankenstein, but that's the first monster movie I ever saw. Then the dam broke 
and I caught others, whenever I could.

Terry: I know that he's one of your idols. Did you ever get a chance to meet him?

Verne: Bela Lugosi? No, but I started corresponding with his widow Hope right after he passed away because we were in 
town to go to Disneyland when he passed away. My parents took me to Utter-McKinley & Stroud Mortuary and I saw him lying 
in state, and then I wrote a letter to his widow Hope. She was very sweet and corresponded with me, and sent me three or 
four beautiful studies of him that were his privately. She also sent me a bookmark that he always used in his books. I 
have no idea whatever happened to that. I gave the pictures to Mike Copner for Cult Movies magazine so I don't know what
happened to them either. My mom visited Hope. I didn't, but she got to see Hope and Hope gave her a statue of Bela which 
of course some years later I broke accidentally. But Tor Johnson gave me another one, which of course some years later I 
lost. Don't give me anything. I can't be trusted.

Terry: If you could only have what you used to have, you know?

Verne: Yeah, if I had what I used to have I'd only make love ten or eleven times a day. I think yesterday I clocked in 
at 30, so what I used to have wasn't so hot. No, but seriously folks..... *Laughs*

Terry: *Laughs* You knew Tor...if you'd known Bela, you might've been in "Plan 9 From Outer Space".

Verne: I could've been. I was in "Plan 9 Companion"!

Terry: There you go. Tell us about that.

Verne: Whatever his name was, he's passed away now, but he produced it. I want to say Mark Carducci but I don't know 
if that's him or not. He called me at Slammers and said, "We're doing a documentary on Ed Wood." and I said, "Why?" 
*Laughs* And he said, "Well, you know, he was the worst film maker ever." I said, "Yeah, that's my point!"

Terry: No, we know some that are definitely worse!

Verne: Haha! I said "Why?" and he said, "Well that's just the way it's going to be and we're going to do it." He 
said, "Besides, they did one in Canada!" as in self defense. I said, "Well, they'll do anything in Canada, bless 
them!" He said, "No, we'd like you to be in it because you knew Tor and you have stories." I said, "Yeah I have 
stories." So they came out to Slammers and put me up by the ring while the guys are beating the hell out of each 
other in the background and actually interviewed me! It's on that thing and it's pretty funny actually! You can 
see what I look like with long hair. 

Terry: Now, Tor Johnson, of course you knew very well.

Verne: I knew Tor really well!

Terry: From what I understand, he even taught you wrestling. Is that right?

Verne: Yes he did! 

Terry: Tell us about that. You said you got stories!

Verne: You never lived until you've had a head lock put on you by Tor Johnson!

Terry: Wasn't no fake stuff there, huh?

Verne: Oh no! He shot, as they say. He was great, and his wife was a midget! 

Terry: Really?

Verne: Compared to him! Compared to him Wilt Chamberlain is a midget! But Greta was a tiny little thing and they 
were hysterical together. She used to boss him around like you wouldn't believe. It was quite a combination.

Terry: When did he teach you wrestling? I know you got into this whole wrestling career.
Verne: Well, I knew him when I had Don Post Studios and he knew I wrestled and I loved to wrestle and he said, "Well 
I'll show you a few things." and boy did he ever! That was in the 60s.

Terry: Now that's the thing you never fall into, when someone says "I'll show you a few things!" That's where it ends! 
*Laughs*

Verne: Well yeah, you know, geesh! No, those are the magic words with anything and don't you ever forget it! Haha! That 
was how I got into everything. "Oh I'll show you a couple of things." "I bet you certainly will!" But yeah, anyhow, 
that's how we got to know each other. 

Terry: Did he ever tell you anything about Lugosi and his friendship with him?

Verne: All the time! Tor had lots of stories!

Terry: Like what?

Verne: Well lots of colorful things, but some he didn't make public and I shouldn't either.. and I certainly won't, 
but he talked about Bela and his problem. And he talked about Ed Wood. He always would ask me, "I wish you knew 
Eddie! Eddie's so great! Eddie. Don't you know Eddie? Eddie Wood?" "No, I don't know him Tor." "Oh, you should know
Eddie. I wish you could meet him." He had tons of funny stories about Eddie, too, but he loved those guys. I think 
they were responsible for his resurgence.

Terry: So you don't think he was ashamed at all of doing Ed Wood b-movies?

Verne: Not at all! It was a movie! Look, it's life. We're in life here folks. Who knows! Who thought "Planet of the 
Apes" was going to be what it was? I mean, we all thought we might have something but we didn't know. We really didn't. 

Terry: When he talked about Lugosi, did he convey to you that Lugosi was proud to work for Ed Wood? It seemed to me 
that he was.

Verne: Tor was proud that he worked for Ed Wood. I think Bela was proud that he worked, period, and that was what meant
the most to Bela. Bela's big hope was that they'd re-do Dracula at Universal in color and he'd play the role in pale 
green make-up, and that's what Tor told me. 

Terry: Kind of sad that Universal kind of turned their back on Bela.

Verne: Universal, and I guess everybody else, had a period where they didn't want anything to do with him because they
knew about the problems that came with him. You don't necessarily want to hire somebody who's got a problematic track 
record.

Terry: You had said in another interview you did that Bela's agent revealed to you that Universal didn't want to have 
Bela in anything anymore?

Verne: Don Marlowe was Bela's agent, but he didn't reveal that information to me because I never knew him, that was 
in a book - I think "The Man Behind the Cape" - about Bela. They just didn't want to have to deal with it. They said, 
"Just get us somebody to come in and do the lines." It isn't "Universal, shame on them!" Any producer is going to say,
"Well if so-and-so's a problem, we don't have time for that. We've got to make this thing in five days..." or however 
long they take to make a movie. Some guy was saying he had a life mask that was made of Bela for "Abbott & Costello 
Meets Frankenstein". They didn't do a life mask of Bela for "Abbott & Costello Meets Frankenstein" because they 
didn't have time! I know this for a fact because Bud Westmore, who was once Head of Makeup at Universal, was Head 
of Makeup for "Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstien," and Bud told me they didn't make a life mask of Bela for that 
film, or ever, at Universal. So anyway, when Universal wound up with Bela, they got rid of Ian Keith. They'd signed 
him, and when they got Bela they had a few days before production. You don't do a life mask of somebody unless they 
need a dummy of him or an appliance, and they didn't, and he was so over the hill it wasn't funny. So they weren't 
going to say, "Oh, well let's get a life mask of him just to have one." They didn't really expect to use him I think.
He was way past that point in his life. 

Terry: When you were working for Post, you were out to find all the life masks of the classic Universal monsters / 
actors, right?

Verne: Yeah, I thought it would be really neat to have a Don Post Private Collection. Don Post did not care whether 
he had a private collection or not. He was not into private collections of anything, or monsters for that matter! Don
liked cute little things, clowns and stuff. I have an affinity for clowns as well, but that's what we did. I went out
and got life masks of people. I had access to all the make-up labs and makeup artists because they loved what we were
doing and in years past Don had saved them a number of times from having to make things by doing it or having it 
already. So, they greeted us with open arms and I'd just go over to George and Gordon Bau or whoever and they'd say,
"Well I don't know if we have it or not but you can look through the lab if you'd like to." And I would! The thing 
that kills me is when I went over to Columbia looking for Bela's lifemask, when I finally got that tip from Bud 
Westmore, who said, "Go see Benny Lane." and I called Benny and he said, "Sure, come on over!" I went over and I 
was up on a real high chair. He said, "If it's anywhere, it's up there." I got it, and as I took it down and I 
handed it to Benny and he said "Naw, that's Paul Muni." I informed him it wasn't, then he said, "Get that box next
to it too." and I got the box. As I moved the box, here in a row were three masks: Larry, Curly, and Moe. When you're
that close to something you don't think about the value, and they hadn't really peaked in their cultism. I think Moe 
was still alive. Larry probably was too, in the 60s. I should've said, "Hey, can I borrow these too?" but I didn't. I
wish now I had.

Terry: Did you actually own the Lugosi life mask?

Verne: No, I borrowed it.

Terry: You borrowed it. You had to give it back?

Verne: I borrowed two things. I borrowed the original Lugosi life mask to make a copy of for our wall, and I borrowed
the wax image and the skull underneath it which the life mask had been made to create from. Beautifully made up! Hair
ventilated right into the wax! They had wax head and skull back ups, probably five or six in case the first one didn't
work for the effect. If it didn't go right the first time, they had another one. If that didn't go right, they had 
another one and they'll do that with effects. Well the first one or the second one apparently worked so they had 
these extra wax heads and plaster skulls left over. As I understood it, Clay Campbell had a set. He took them home,
and somebody else got a set too, but I didn't realize that at the time. I thought this was the only set, the wax 
head and plaster skull special effects pieces. I knew it was the only life mask, because it was the original. But 
I didn't know that there was more than one wax head and plaster skull back up set. When I got the life mask over 
to Don Post studios and we made our copy, after we were done with it I just held on to it. Benny was in no hurry 
to get it back. He said, "You can hang onto it for a while." and the other thing was the wax head casting and the
skull. Well, I put them in my file cabinet there and everytime I'd open the file cabinet the wax head and the 
skull would kind of bounce around a little bit. I thought, "You know, sooner or later, this thing is going to 
get damaged and I don't know why I got it anyway. We're not going to do anything with it." So one day Benny 
called me to come over to bring him some rubber or something. I went over and did that, took the wax head and 
skull with me, and gave them back to him. The skull and the wax head. I said to him, "I've still got the life 
mask. I'll get that back to you." He said, "Oh, whatever." Three or four weeks later he called me and he said, 
"Can you come over and make an old age appliance for Dick Van Dyke? We just took the life mask and the guy who 
did the mask has gone off on another project. Do you wanna do it?" I said, "Well, I'll come over and look at 
it." I went over and he took me up stairs to the lab to see the life mask. There, in a little cooking pan with 
a handle on it, on a hot-plate burner, was that beautiful wax face of Lugosi, broken in twenty pieces, ventilated
hair and all, stuffed into this cooking pan.... they had tried to melt it down. I could hardly speak. I said, 
"Benny..." "What?" I said, "What's this all about?" He said, "Oh, Jack Young was up here and he needed some wax
for something and he didn't have any wax so he took that thing and broke it to melt down." When I saw that, I 
said to myself, "There is no way I'm ever going to bring the original Bela Lugosi life mask back to this lab 
and give it to you or anybody else." That's why I had it. I had it for 40 years and I finally sold it on eBay 
for $5,000 to a wonderful collector, who is in the process of putting a life mask museum together. He's 
duplicating each life mask so that it can be out in front of the actual exhibit so that the blind that come to
see the life masks can feel the faces. It's a wonderful, wonderful concept. I was really thrilled about that 
because I've had that mask for 40 years. It's been wrapped up in towels. I've never had it out. I've never 
exhibited it, but I was damned if I was going to return it to somebody who could break it up and try and make 
new plaster out of it. 

Terry: You knew Mr. Westmore pretty well, right?

Verne: I sure did. He was great. All the other make-up artists hated him - were jealous of him - because he was part 
of the Westmore Dynasty and the name Westmore, at one time in Hollywood, meant as much as the name Max Factor. They 
had what they called 'The House of Westmore' that was Bud and Perc and Wally and the other boys. They all had that, 
and at one time there was a Westmore at the head of each make-up department in Hollywood. All Westmores. So, it's a 
very highly regarded name. Famous even today. I know Mike Westmore really well. Mike was just starting his appren-
ticeship when I started nosing around over at the lab, so Mike and I go way back with John Chambers and all of those
people.

Terry: What's it like when all of you guys get together? Do you trade tips? You're not secretive with all your stuff
are you?

Verne: Oh, a lot of those guys were, and I was. I'd keep the doors closed. I wouldn't let anybody in because I didn't
want anybody doing what we were doing. Now, there's a thousand different people making masks and there aren't any 
secrets. But Johnny was very open with his secrets and he would take us all under his wing. He was a wonderful 
character.

Terry: You were actually a customer of Don Post when you were a child, right?

Verne: I was, yep. I bought masks that he made. The chimp mask was my first mask and somebody bought it for me, a 
friend of the family's, and after that I had several of his masks. 

Terry: How did it come about that you came here and you became half owner?

Verne: Well, I was in radio and I did some other stuff. I'd buy things from Don. We became friends, and I came down 
to see him one time and he said, "What are you doing?" I had a mask in the car that I had made because I was making 
masks and selling them at a costume shop, and for spook show operators like The Great Tousaint, so when he said, 
"What are you doing?" I said, "Let me show you." and I brought in the mask and showed it to him. He said, "You made
this?" I said, "Yes." and he said, "Why? Why'd you make it?" I said, "Because I got a little costume shop there in
San Jose that made room for me in the back and I've got a little lab set up there. I'm making masks and heads and 
stuff. I'm selling them." He said, "You're going into business against me?" I said, "No! I'm making a few masks. 
You've got masks all over town!" He said, "Well, I would think if you're ever going to do anything with masks, 
you'd do it with me. We could go into business together." and I said, "Well, fine. If I ever go into the mask 
business with anybody, it'll be with you." We kind of let it go at that, but we corresponded back and forth and 
every now and then he'd say something or I'd say something. Finally it just came to it. I graduated from college 
and I was on the brink of getting married and he said, "Well why don't you come down and go into business with me?" 
I didn't realize that he had a habit of taking on new partners when the well was dry! Haha! 

Terry: *Laughs* The well was dry huh?

Verne: Let's just say the well was losing moisture fast, and I was the next one in line! Yeah, but I loved him and he
was a sweet man, and I love his son dearly. His son is like a nephew to me. Anyway, I came down and invested in the 
company. Then Dawn and I got married and we came down. She went to school, and I went to Don Post Studios and was 
there for 5 years. Then I left. 

Terry: You bought what was called "the lion's share", right?

Verne: Yes, he said he's going to sell me half. As Don described it, with his eyes half closed, "Actually, the lion's
share of the business."

Terry: Without asking you how much...

Verne: Very little!

Terry: It was very little?

Verne: Very little! He didn't need too much. There wasn't that much to sell. The day I started I had to pay the
phone bill... the phone company was about to disconnect the phone. The first week we came in, the guy from the 
phone company showed up and said, "I'm here to take out your service." 

Terry: Now did he have any monster masks at all? You said it was mostly clowns and stuff?

Verne: A gorilla for a burlesque dancer's "beauty and the beast" act, and a custom Frankenstein that they made for
Joe Karston for Midnight Spook Shows. Also a mask of the Fly, and a mask of some creature that looked like cheese 
with the plastic dome with the brain exposed, that he also made for Karston. Those were the four "custom" monster 
masks he had. Pat Newman later told me she sculpted the Frankenstein. When I came in, I said, "I want to do new 
stuff." He said, "Well fine, whatever." Basically, the mask business was mine. He was tired of it and he wanted to 
get into other things. He was investing in a vacuum former with Milt Rice and Bobby Bonning, who were prop men at 
the studios. They went into the big plastic prop business. They made all the meat for "Irma La Douce," and they made
the cars for "The Great Race". They did four sets of bodies for each car. So, they were doing real well with that 
stuff and I was running the mask business. My first day at my desk he asked me, "Do you want to call it Langdon-Post
Studios?" and I said, "No. It's been Don Post Studios since the beginning. Lets go with the name it's been called. 
People know that name." Otherwise, we'd be talking about Langdon-Post Studios! So, that's what we did, and I had free
reign and in short order found out that it wasn't Don that had sculpted all of the masks, Pat Newman did some. Still,
Don had sculpted others. Way back in the day, he sculpted Mussolini, and Hitler, and Eski [ the Esquire Magazine 
mascot and all of those characters. He did some of the other characters too, like his tramp, grave digger, and old 
woman. By comparison they were very crude, but mind you, these were the ORIGINAL over-the-head "borrowed personality" 
rubber masks! 

Terry: Was Hitler a big seller?

Verne: Hitler was a huge seller because people would buy it, stick it on a dummy, and burn it in effigy. The same with
Mussolini and with Stalin. He did a line of masks called 'The Dictators' and Marshall Field probably got real rich on 
those masks, because that was one of Marshall Field's biggest sellers. There's some of that ad art that's still 
survived. Junior has it and Dan Roebuck, the actor, is a mask collector, and he has some of the original ads, with 
those masks on them. So Don was a pioneer of the novelty trade.. But he got the idea of doing rubber masks from a 
circus clown in Ringling who was doing Popeye - maybe Paul Jung or Paul Wenzel, both producing clowns who worked with
rubber. Don saw this clown in a Popeye mask and he was fascinated by it. He went backstage, met the clown, studied 
the mask, and the rest is mask history! 

Terry: When you were at Post Studios, the monsters that you really brought out was this huge catalog of Universal 
monsters.

Verne: Right.

Terry: Why was it the Universal monsters that you thought would be successful and the ones to bring out?

Verne: They were the only ones! I mean, there's Laughton's hunchback, and I did want to get around to doing that, 
and eventually I did for "Land of 1,000 Faces" for Universal. My friend Keith Crary sculpted an awesome likeness. 
Awesome! But, we never did anything with it except use it on the opening of the show, 'The Spirit of The Mirror'. 
Frankenstein is the ultimate monster, so we had to do that, and Dracula, I wanted immediately. We've got to do a 
Dracula! So, of course, it would have to be Lugosi. That was before the shit hit the fan so to speak, pardon my 
french those of you who don't like the word fan. *Laughs* We did an exact likeness, not using the life mask, as 
some people erroneously report. We had the life mask of Lugosi but Pat didn't use it. She used photographs and 
did this awesome likeness.

Terry: It is too! I've seen it.

Verne: It really is! 

Terry: To me, when I looked at it, I thought it was a painting because it was so beautiful.

Verne: It was just great, and it even looked more like Bela in clay. About that time Aurora came out with their hobby
kits and Warren already had the likeness plastered all over his magazines because he loves Lugosi too. God, I wish Jim
was here. You'd love him! He's like Howard Hughes. He hides in his mansion and never comes out. He's great. He's just 
wonderful. He's the greatest interview in the world. Anyway, there was Lugosi all over the place and so we did the 
masks. Somewhere along the line the Aurora kits and our masks and other Universal Monsters Dracula/Lugosi merchandise
were responsible for that lawsuit more than anything. They didn't sue us, they sued Universal who didn't really have 
a clue what they were licensing. They thought that Dracula was a make-up like The Wolfman and Frankenstein. Attorneys
don't know about make-up, and they're not expected to. 

Terry: Was their basis that they were suing because they were using Lugosi's likeness when in reality the character
looked like Lugosi? I mean, why couldn't they get away with that?

Verne: His likeness was the character. As Mae West used to say about Diamond Lil, "I'm her and she's me." Well, Lugosi
was Dracula and Dracula was Lugosi, and on that finite point they filed a lawsuit and won it. It went back and forth a
couple of times. Universal won the first round. The Lugosi estate won the second round, or visa-versa, and so forth 
and so on, but I think the Lugosi's were the ultimate winners. Then Sarah Karloff jumped on the band wagon and then 
the Chaney's jumped on the band wagon.

Terry: And when you say Lugosi, you mean Lugosi Jr., right?

Verne: Right.

Terry: Yeah, he's a lawyer anyway, right?

Verne: That's correct. It doesn't hurt. Legal costs would be slightly less, although you still have to pay filing fees
and investigators, and subpoena expert witnesses and other things, plus your regular office expenses, and that can cost
a LOT of money. Attorneys have my ultimate respect because my former wife and her husband are attorneys and I know the 
hell they go through. If you think clients are easy, you've got another thought coming. Who wants to deal with most of 
the people that file suits? It's not the lawyers that file them. It's the clients that are like, "I wanna sue that 
bastard for every dime he ever took from me!" The attorney says, "Fine. Ok. I'll listen. Talk." 

Terry: Now even though you never knew Lugosi, and you only knew of him and talked to people like Tor that knew him, 
what do you think Lugosi would've thought about his face being around? Do you think he would've cared?

Verne: He would've said, "It's about time and where's my money?"

Terry: That's right!

Verne: The same thing that his son said, and I find no fault with what his son did. It was just inconvenient because
we happened to be affected, and about the time the Karloff album came out with Lugosi's voice on it, maybe with a 
year or so after it was released by Decca, is about the time the suit was filed. So that album was only on the 
market about a year, then all of a sudden Universal pulled everything. They shouldn't have done that. They should've
kept everything out there, but that's what happened.

Terry: You're talking about "An Evening With Boris Karloff & His Friends", right?

Verne: Uh huh.

Terry: Which you produced? 

Verne: Milt Larsen and I produced it. Then Forry Ackerman wrote the script for it so we made him a producer too. But
the signatures that accompany Boris's on the orignial contract, which Dan Roebuck now has in his collection, are 
Boris's, Milt's, and mine. We made the deal.

Terry: Let me ask you about Karloff, I heard that when he did the album and he listened to the playback, he made 
a statement to the effect of, "I didn't know I lisped." Is that true?

Verne: I don't remember him saying it.

Terry: No? Just a rumor?

Verne: I don't remember him saying it...he might have. What he did say was when he got to the part about Ernest 
Thesiger, Elsa Lanchester, and so forth, after that line was delivered and that was the end of the intro he says,
"Good heavens, I'm the only one still alive!" Tape was still rolling, and we had it on tape and should've left it
in! But we didn't, because it wasn't in the script and we were like "Eh, oh no.."

Terry: You don't still have any of that left do you?

Verne: No. In those days, an outtake was an outtake. You got rid of it, but I've got all the tracks before we mixed
and edited and all that. But, you can't do anything with it. It's Decca's property. I've seen a couple of people do
bootlegs with it and the day will come that Decca or MCA will find out about it and when that happens, those folks 
will be in deep doo doo. 

Terry: In reality, when this album that you produced went off the market, that kind of really started your musical
career, didn't it?

Verne: Well, no, Milt Larsen started my musical career in full swing at The Magic Castle doing music for their 
seance. He said, "We need some music for the seance." and he knew I played the organ. He said, "Why don't you do
some organ for us." I said, "Ok."

Terry: By the seance, do you mean when they try to conjure up Houdini?

Verne: Every night, and they've come pretty close some nights.

Terry: Really?

Verne: Really.

Terry: Are you serious?

Verne: Yeah.

Terry: Some things have happened?

Verne: Uh huh.

Terry: What's happened?

Verne: Little things.

Terry: Little things?

Verne: Little things like, "HEY, it's ME! Harry! What are you doing here without paying me a royalty?!" 

Terry: *Laughs* 

Verne: *Laughs* Subtle stuff you wouldn't catch onto right away! Woooooooo! What was that honey? I don't know. Don't
touch me. I'm not touching you! I do believe in spooks. I do believe in spooks. I DO believe in spooks! So, I did 
this music. Korla Pandit did an album. I produced him. We did it over at Whitney Studios with this awesome pipe 
organ that Walt Disney and Loren Whitney built. I had found out about that pipe organ from Korla, so when Milt 
said, "Do this music for us.", I said, "Great! There's this neat pipe organ..." and Milt loved the idea. We went
over there and I did some spooky music for the seance which worked really well. So, a few months later, Universal
pulls the Karloff album off the market and a little time went by. I said to Milt, "Lets, us, put it out on our 
label." He said, "Write to Decca and see if you can do that." So I wrote to Decca and they said, "No, in the light
of the lawsuit and everything, we can't sublease it to anybody anyway." I was rather dejected about that. Milt and
I were having a drink one night at The Castle talking it over, and Milt said, "Well, we'll put out our own spooky 
album." I said, "We will?" He said, "Yeah. You'll play more of that stuff like you did at the seance. We'll put 
that out." and I said, "Are you crazy? Who would listen to THAT?!" Well, "The Phantom of the Organ" has sold a 
million copies - well, ten anyway, over the years. Of course, Disneyland and Disney World helped a lot, because 
that's where they sold it. So, we put out an album of spooky music and I said, "And we're going to call this 
'Verne Langdon At The Old Wurlitzer'?" He says, "No no no no, that's too predictable. Come up with something 
else." So I came up with "The Phantom of the Organ". Then I had Forry write the liner notes and he found a guy,
Bob Juanillo up in Hayward, to do the cover. It was a marvelous cover. That's how "The Phantom of the Organ" 
came to be and it did so well! We sent it out to all the major critics and it was Emperor's new clothes time. 
They had no frame of reference for it so they said, "It's wonderful!" They didn't know that I didn't know how 
to play the organ and I wasn't going to tell them! 

Terry: You had to have!

Verne: No, well, you do the best you can with what you have to work with.

Terry: But it did so well you brought out a companion!

Verne: Then we brought out "The Vampyre At The Harpsichord". If you think "The Phantom" did well... HA HAAA! More 
people like harpsichord music than you have any idea, and I know three of them because they all bought a copy of 
the album. 

Terry: Who's idea was it to put the "London After Midnight" character of Lon Chaney Sr. on the album cover?

Verne: Mine. Forry named the Vampyre Draculon because he liked the combination of Dracula and Lon. Forry is kicky 
that way. That's how it came to be. It would be natural to do that if The Phantom was the character, then... well,
you do the Vampyre with the Harpsichord. So that's how that happened.

Terry: You never considered doing stage performances and putting on the cape and the whole thing?

Verne: No, and I have a cape!

Terry: I know! Well, doesn't everybody?

Verne: Yeah!

Terry: I do!

Verne: Yes, of course we do! Yeah! I wear it around the house and I go, "Bllooooah blooooah blooooah!" and gesture
funny with my hand. But I don't do anything much more than that with it. I don't wear it out on dates or anything.
I'm a closet vampire!

Terry: The thing that's great is when you had those out, they were separate albums, and now they're on CD and you 
have them both combined on one CD. Is that right?

Verne: Yeah, that's correct. It's "The Phantom of the Organ" AND "The Vampyre At The Harpsichord".. Two.. Two.. 
TWO albums on one CD! Double your displeasure...double your fun..... 

Terry: That's right!

Verne: They're digitally remastered from the original masters. The sound is better on the CD than it was on the 
LP's.

Terry: So you're not one of these people that says vinyl is IT?

Verne: No, but I know some of those people, and I loathe them. No no, just kidding! They're ok. *Laughs* Music is 
music, whatever it's played on. I don't care if it's a cylinder, it's great! 

Terry: What's some of your favorite numbers off of The Phantom / Vampyre CD?

Verne: What are some of my favorite numbers? All of them! I wrote them! 

Terry: Well of course, but there's got to be some that stand out in your mind more than others?

Verne: No. No, I really like all of the things that I've done and it's a good thing because that's how I amuse 
myself. I don't listen to other people's stuff, I listen to MY stuff. I do! I don't listen to "The Phantom of the
Organ" every day, let me tell ya! But, it's a good album. 

Terry: So you basically use the philosophy that you did when you were with Don Post where you really kind of made 
stuff for yourself?

Verne: Absolutely! Yeah! Just like Tim Curry in "The Rocky Horror Show" where he asks Brad's girlfriend Janet how 
she likes his creation, and she says "I don't like a man with too many muscles, and Tim/Dr. Frankenfurter snaps, 
"I didn't make him for YOU!"

Terry: And this led into other horror music CDs?

Verne: Yeah.

Terry: They were records first and then they became CDs.

Verne: Yeah, well, they kept doing well. We did "Music for Magicians" which was kind of nifty because Milt's 
brother Bill came up with that concept. He said, "Why don't you do this?" I said, "Ok." That sold like crazy! 
They're still begging us to bring that back, and we will someday. We almost did it this year but we'll do it 
next year maybe.

Terry: When you produced the Karloff album, was that when you first met Boris?

Verne: I met him when we did "The Comedy of Terrors". I think that came before the album. You would know. I 
wouldn't.

Terry: I would, yeah. You had something to do with that film?

Verne: Yeah...

Terry: See, I'm a big Samuel Arkoff / American International Pictures fan. 

Verne: We made a mask of Peter Lorre for his stunt man Harvey Perry to wear because Peter was pretty sick and 
couldn't even get down off the carriage. That's one thing they used it for and a few other things with Harvey 
doubling for Peter in the film. You really can't tell it's a mask. There is a head of Peter they used for some 
other film that gets cut off and thrown back and forth. It doesn't look much like him and we didn't make it. It 
wasn't from a life mask either. It was sculpted, but "The Comedy of Terrors" was what we did the life mask of 
Peter for. I think I met Boris previously to the album because I'm pretty sure we did the album in 1966, it was 
released in '67, and I left Post Studios in '68. 

Terry: What kind of a guy was Boris?

Verne: Very quiet, soft spoken, truly a gentle-man!

Terry: He wasn't feeling too good in his last days was he? 

Verne: Hmmm, he was 80-something and I don't think he was dancing too much but he was in a wheel chair later on 
when he did "The Red Skelton Show". After the album, I worked with him at CBS and said (to Boris), "We've got a 
concept for doing that album as a TV special and I want you to host that." He said, "No, I'm going back to 
England and I won't be coming back." Then he passed away not that long after. 

Terry: Do you think he knew how much he was loved?

Verne: Karloff? Oh yes! He couldn't go out for a cup of coffee without fifty people climbing all over him.

Terry: He didn't mind that?

Verne: No, he loved it. He always said, "Without that monster, I'd be nothing!"

Terry: And you've said that Vincent Price was also a great guy?

Verne: Vincent had a remarkable sense of humor. A remarkable sense of humor! He was very bright and one hell of 
an art collector! Oh! 

Terry: And a cook!

Verne: Uh huh! He and his first wife Mary did a cook book and then he divorced and later married the actress Coral
Browne. But, oh, Vincent was a very, very, very sweet man! Large! You didn't realize how tall he was until you met
him in person, and he was big. He could've been a football player actually!

Terry: You never considered doing an album with him?

Verne: Yes, he and I did. I told him I wanted to do an album with him. He said, "Ok, what do you want to do?" I 
said, "What do you want to do?" because I'd done "Poe With Pipes" and that came out really good. He was impressed
with that.

Terry: That was with Carradine.

Verne: John Carradine, yes. So Vincent said, "Do you know the works of Baudelaire?" I said, "No." He said, "Well,
he wrote "Flowers of Evil". It's a collection of his works. I'd like to do that." So I sent my secretary to the 
library and she spent all day down there! She brought home Baudelaire's Flowers of Evil, and it was in French. 
So, I found somebody and I said, "Listen, we've got to translate this book." In the meantime, when the translator
finished, I told Vincent we had the book. I told him we had it translated from the French. He said, "You know, 
dear boy, it was translated to English years ago!" So, I said, "Ok." DUH! Silly me! Then he went off and did a 
picture and by the time we were ready to record, he wasn't. Then by the time he was ready to record, I wasn't. 
Everytime we'd run into each other we'd say, "We've gotta do it! We've gotta do it!" and God bless him we never 
did it. Never got it done. I wanted to do it, and so did he. Tempus Fugit! 

Terry: Let me ask you about Carradine. How did you get involved with him and do the album?

Verne: At Universal we did a show called "The Land of 1,000 Faces" and I had him do that voice for the opening, 
"The Spirit In The Mirror".

Terry: He had a great voice!

Verne: He had a magnificent voice! I thought about it and I thought, "You know, it'd be really good to do an album
of Edgar Allan Poe and I could score a pipe organ to it." So, I called his agent Walter Kohner on Sunset. I said, 
"I want to do this project with John." He says, "Ok, I'll ask him." He did, then called me back and said, "He'd be
delighted to work for you." We worked out the details. So John showed up at the studio, Whitney Studios, where the
pipe organ was. A friend of mine, Mark Segal, who now has spent the last 30 years and earned hundreds of thousands
of dollars working with George Lucas, was working at the time for us at "Land of 1,000 Faces" and before that was 
one of my students at Ringling's clown college (That's a long story too, but anyway..) Mark loaned me his original
edition copy of Edgar Allan Poe, a first print of poetry. I brought that along and in addition to that book I had 
typed all of the poetry in very large type so Mister Carradine could read it easier. I had that, and the book on 
the music stand by the microphone. He came out, "Hello, how are you?" He sits down and I said, "My friend Mark 
sent this original edition along. I would love for you to autograph it to him, and if you'd like to, you can read
from it for the recording." He says, "What's his name?" I said, "Mark." He pulls out his pen, he opens the book, 
and he signs, "To Mark: Best Wishes, John Carradine." He closes the book, hands the book to me and puts the pen 
away. I figured, "Well, I guess the print is too small for him." So then, I take all the Poe works I typed up off
of the music stand and hand the pages to him. "These are the things we're going to be doing." He looks through 
them and he says, "Very good." and he hands me back the whole stack. I say, "Well, you'll want to read from 
these." He says, "I don't need to." 

Terry: Really?

Verne: I said, "You mean, you.... know them?" He smiled knowingly and answered wryly, "Rather well." I went into 
the booth and read down each one as he recited the work. He knew what we wanted him to read as he'd seen the line
up. "The Raven. Once upon a midnight dreary..." He went right down the line, knowing every title in his mind that
we were doing, in the order we wanted it done, every poem, word for word! He didn't miss a word. He didn't miss 
an intonation. He didn't miss a beat! It was perfect! No two takes! No nothing. My jaw was on the floor by the 
time we were done. Then he went home, and I put the music in behind it. Later, I told my friend Larry Rupert 
this story, and Rupert said, "Oh, you should come down to the Cock N' Bull [the one that used to be on the 
Sunset Strip in Hollywood.] Carradine's there almost every night. He does Shakespeare at the bar!" I said, 
"From books?" He says, "No, he knows it all!" John Carradine!

Terry: So when he did your album, he was pretty much up in age, right?

Verne: Well, he was born in 1906, and we recorded Poe With Pipes in 1975. He would have been 69. Not THAT "up!" 

Terry: A lot of people have said that because he drank in his later years that he really wasn't with it, but you're
saying he absolutely was with it.

Verne: Oh, he was entirely with it! After we did that album, six or seven years went by, and one day I went up to
Montecito to visit Milt who had a place up there and we went over to Jurgensen Deli to do some shopping. We're 
looking in the wine section and all of a sudden [in a deep voice] "OH MY GOD!" and it was Carradine. We turned 
around and he said, "Electric Lemon! "Poe With Pipes!" Not with it? Wrong! 

Terry: It sounds like everything he said was dramatic.

Verne: Oh, everything was! The minute you heard that voice you knew one of two things: you were under arrest and 
it was a cop with a bullhorn, OR it was John Carradine speaking in his normal voice!

Terry: I heard this story about him being at, I believe, The Cock N' Bull and he was watching TV at the bar. They 
were showing one of his movies and they had edited it a lot. He pounded his fists on the table and he said, "They
fucked it up!"

Verne: I believe it!

Terry: So he was a pistol, huh?

Verne: He had a mind like a mouse trap, and I did a life mask of him for our collection. Actually, I think that's
the first time I ever met him. It was, and I went out to Via Lido North. That's where he lived at the time, in a
little apartment right on the water and I did this life mask. He said, "Let me show you my most prized possession."
It was the star off of his son's dressing room door from Broadway. His son had opened on Broadway and sent his dad 
the star off of his door. Carradine had the star. I believe it was Keith, but it could've been David.. but he was 
so proud of that! That's where I first met him, when I did his life mask. He wanted to know all about it. "How are
you going to do this?" and about the process and everything. He said, "I used to be a sculptor." I said, "Really?"
Well, everybody sculpts or putzes around with clay. I said, "That's interesting." He said, "Yes, I'd like to visit
your studio." "OK! We'll have this done in a week or two, you can come on out." "Call me!" I said, "I will." So I 
called him one day and he said, "I'll be right over!" He came over with this huge book under his arm and he put it
down on the table, "I thought you'd like to see some of my art." It was full of sculptings that he did as a young
artist before he became an actor. There he is standing by half of this stuff looking like he's about 11 years old.
Oh my God! He could've been one of our most prolific artists! He was amazing! Brilliant! I met the one son who did
not go into show business directly at a party years after he passed away. This son was the Jay Stein of Florida 
with, I believe it was Disney, and he created their out door amusements. I introduced myself and I said, "I did 
an album with your father." He said, "You didn't do "Poe With Pipes", did you?" and I said, "Yes!" He said, "That
was his favorite album! That was dad's favorite album!" That made me feel so good because I just adored that man. 
He did a little thing for me called "Hollywood on Parade" that I wrote and that I scored and that's out on CD now.

Terry: That's Dejavu Records, right?

Verne: Yep, and it's a single. It's just a three minute piece but when you hear that, it'll bring a tear to your 
eye because we don't have these stars anymore. And, we don't have anybody to replace them.

Terry: No, and the thing is if you look at the horror stars back then, they were artists. They were into history 
and Poe and Shakespeare. The actors now days, what do they do?

Verne: They're SCIENTOLOGISTS! *Laughs*. The old-timers guys had a background in film or theater that an actor, 
in all fairness, can't really have today. There's no "studio system". There isn't the theatre work available 
today that there was 40-50 years ago. It's a whole different ball game for a number of reasons. Whatever those 
reasons are, we don't have those guys anymore, unfortunately, and boy, we had some good ones. Including Lon Chaney 
Jr! One of my favorite experiences involved Lon Chaney Jr. , when Dr. Donald Reed had formed the Count Dracula 
Society and they gave out these Count Dracula Society awards every year. This one year Don and the group decided 
to give Don Post Studios an award, so Don and I went to get a free dinner and to receive our award. We sat right 
across from Lon Chaney Jr. who was there being honored also. The first thing he said, when we were there but five
minutes, was, "Do I have to buy my own drinks or is somebody going to bring me one?" Right there, just like that!
They kept him in booze for the rest of the evening, and by the time dinner was finished he was pretty soused... 
as most of us were! There isn't much to do at those things but sit around and get soused and try and avoid the 
stares of people who are trying to figure out who you are and why you're there. So they gave him his award. He
stood there and accepted it, and a tear came to his eye. He said, "You've been so nice to me in giving me this
award. I'd like to give you something." With that, 35 years melted off of him and he was a beautiful young man
again and did that scene from "Of Mice and Men". "Tell me about the rabbits George..." When he finished, 
everybody had tears streaming down their face. For that magic moment, he brought back a piece of Hollywood that
had vanished then and oh, I'll never forget it! It's one of my most poignant memories. I worked with him after 
that and I told him, "You know, you really did it to me that night." and he said, "That's one of my favorite 
things." That movie was his favorite.

Terry: Do you think he felt that people just knew him for the monster thing and didn't take him serious as a 
great actor?

Verne: Any kid of a famous person has such a load to overcome. It's universal to all of them.

Terry: Did he ever actually talk to you about his father?

Verne: No. It's something I didn't really want to talk about with him because I thought his father was a great 
artist but I thought Junior was a very credible actor in his own right. Lon Chaney Jr. was one of the first film
actors I met after coming to Hollywood. We got a call for stuff for AIP's "Haunted Palace". Mutation appliances. 
So I took the things over and then I met Lon Jr., and Vincent. I kind of hung out on the set and got to know 
Vincent. Then the next one was "Comedy of Terrors", I think, with Basil Rathbone. Mr. Rathbone, Vincent Price, 
Boris Karloff, and Peter Lorre. Chaney Jr. junior was there too I think. Now if he wasn't on that film, he was 
on something they were doing concurrently because what would happen would be Arkoff and Nicholson would sign 
these guys for three pictures to be done within the two week period. They said, "We'll pay you x number of 
dollars and we can get as many movies out of you as we can in two weeks within an eight hour day." They had all
these sets over at Producer Studios, what they called that place in those days, I think now it's Raleigh Studios,
near Paramount. They were just sitting there cutting up jackpots and laughing and scratching, and I just sat down
with them. I spent the whole day with Vincent Price, Basil Rathbone, Boris Karloff, Peter Lorre, and Lon Chaney 
Jr. I went home and I said to myself, "You know, there's some people that you saw up on the screen that you 
thought you'd never meet. My my! Isn't that something!" and the funny thing is they went home that night and 
said, "There is a guy that we never thought we'd meet! Heard a lot about Verne Langdon and..." *Laughs* No! 
Just kidding! 

Terry: So in reference to meeting the big names of horror on the set at Producer's Studios, you actually were 
impressed? I know a lot of people who work out here for years and it's like nothing to them.

Verne: I think they're faking it. was very impressed, because those were people I grew up watching. I've met 
everybody I've ever wanted to meet. Vincent Price. Boris Karloff. Melvin Belli. Muhammed Ali. Utah Hagen - I 
worked with her. Mae West. And a few other people that I would've enjoyed meeting, and I got to work with and 
know, like Paul Lynde and Jonathan Winters, who I yell at, at the market now, and he yells back. We yell and 
create scenes for the shoppers. It's great. No food fights. Just yelling. *Laughs*

Terry: you basically live in the present, but you've really got to miss old Hollywood. It's not fun anymore, is it?

Verne: Oh yeah! Oh, everyday is fun! When I wake up in the morning and find myself, that's fun. I go, "Hey! I'm 
still here! Not bad! Yeah!" No, listen, "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's 
why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt said that. The present is God's gift to you, and what you do with 
it is your gift to God. I've always felt that way. I've got some great memories with some great people that I'll be
eternally thankful for, but I meet people everyday that I'm absolutely delighted with. and we build new memories! 

Terry: You knew Vampira.

Verne: I DATED Vampira!

Terry: You did?

Verne: Yep. Once. After we did the Tor Johnson mask, Forry gave me her number - he has a habit of doing that with 
private, unlisted phone numbers...ask Chris Lee! *Laughs* I love Forry! Anyway, I called Maila and told her about 
our Tor mask and that I had an idea for doing a Vampira mask, and would she have dinner with me at the Magic Castle,
so I could fill her in on my idea. She said yes, and I picked her up at her place on Melrose - "Maila's Attic" or 
some name like that - her little store -and took her up to the Castle. She still looked good - the high cheekbones
and all, long blonde hair, and anyway I told her how we'd done Tor's mask and that I thought a Vampira mask would 
be great. That was after the entre. I think she waited 'til then to tell me Hunt Stromberg, Jr. , who was the 
Program Director over at KABC in "Vampira's" day, was involved with the "Vampira Show," and that KABC owned the 
rights. We had desert and I took her home. end of Vampira story! Waiter! Check, please! *Laughs*

Terry: Huh. ..... 

Verne: That's pretty much what I said at the time....."huh!" *Laughs*

Terry: Wasn't she the prototype for "Vampirella?"

Verne: Jim and Forry put that character together.

Terry: You and Jim Warren are friends. When you first got to know Jim Warren, it was over a letter he sent to you 
when he was threatening to sue you because you'd actually cut his logo out of his magazine and used it on a flyer?

Verne: That's right!

Terry: Can you tell us that story?

Verne: It's true! I cut the print word 'Monsters' out of the "Famous Monsters of Filmland" logo.

Terry: You didn't think he minded, right?

Verne: I didn't think, period! I rarely do! I didn't think to think whether he minded or not. I said, "That looks 
neat. We'll use it!" I have a very direct way of doing things. I went ahead and just borrowed the 'Monsters' from 
"Famous Monsters". Then, that wasn't bad enough, I printed about a thousand flyers, took a couple of them, and 
turned around and sent them to him saying, "We make these great masks. Why don't you sell them in your magazine?"
That's when I got this letter back saying, "I've always wanted to own a mask company, as I will when I take you to
court for stealing my logo... unless you get on the stick and send me a set of those masks so I can sell them in 
my magazine." Well I wrote him a huge letter of apology and his father Ben Taubman called who ran the mail order 
company and said, "Jim wants to put them in the magazine."

Terry: He ran the Captain Company?

Verne: Yeah, Ben ran the Captain Company. He said, "What kind of a deal do you want to give us these." I said, 
"I'll pay you to sell them!" which he thought was pretty funny. *Laughs*

Terry: And to this day you stay in touch!

Verne: To this day. As recently as this morning. Time and charges: $16.00. I talk to him everyday on the phone. 
He calls me every single day... collect! *Laughs* He does! He calls me every single day collect and I accept the 
charges. This has been going on for forty plus years! I'm broke from paying for his phone calls, but I figure I 
still owe him for stealing his logo!

Terry: You had to really like the guy because when you made your famous zombie mask, and you sent him the 
transparency, and basically I believe you were just wanting him to see the picture...

Verne: I wanted him to have it.

Terry: And he winds up sending you a check and says, "We're putting it on the cover." but he didn't even ask you?

Verne: I said, "Well, yeah, you can use it if you want to."

Terry: Oh you did tell him that?

Verne: Yeah.

Terry: Oh, I thought he put it on the cover without even asking you. 

Verne: Noooo, no. He said, "If I like it I'll put it on the cover!" when I said I was sending it. I said, "Well,
uh..... if you want to, but I don't think..." I mean, I knew his modus opperandi and it was paintings per say. Now
and then they did a photograph.

Terry: But they mostly did paintings, didn't they?

Verne: Mostly they were paintings, so I didn't think anything of it. He called me when he told me he had it on the
cover. I got the check and that's how that happened.

Terry: You really admire Jim Warren.

Verne: No, no. I don't 'admire' Jim. I love him! *Laughs* If he walked in tomorrow and said, "I'm taking over your
place. Find some place else to live." I would! That's how much I love him. Yeah! Besides, if I didn't, he'd have 
me killed. 

Terry: So you really feel, of course Forry is so talented, but really without Jim it probably wouldn't have been 
what it was as far as "Famous Monsters" right?

Verne: Jim needed Forry and Forry needed Jim. Forry had the collection, similar to what other people might have 
had, but Forry would sit down and write some pretty funny stuff, and then Jim would take it and just edit the hell
out of it. Forry doesn't need talent. He needs direction and anybody's like that. Jim had a wonderful knack for 
doing that, and Jim made Famous Monsters of Filmland what it was.

Terry: You weren't involved with the "Famous Monsters Speak" album, right?

Verne: I know nothing about it. I've never even heard it.

Terry: Is there any truth to the rumor that when Forry ran the ad in the back of the magazine protesting the 
Vietnam war, that there was a big rowel between him and...

Verne: I don't think Forry ran that ad, I think Jim did. I don't really remember. 

Terry: But did Forry get mad about it? I heard somebody got mad over that ad and there was a feud.

Verne: I have no idea.

Terry: The rumor is, and maybe this is false, but everyone says that Forry ran it and Jim got mad.

Verne: No, I don't believe Forry would have had anything to do with the ads, nor would he have had any ability to 
run anything. He wouldn't have any ability to run an article or a view without Jim, because Jim made all the final 
cuts and was the man in charge of "Famous Monsters."

Terry: Okay. Now you said that you made props for "The Comedy of Terrors", and that of course was for American 
International Pictures. I grew up watching all their films. Did you know Sam Arkoff by chance?

Verne: I may have met him but I don't recall. I met a lot of people and a lot of people say, "Well I met you here 
and there and like that." Beats me!

Terry: What about Roger Corman?

Verne: I don't think I met him either. If I did, it was, "How do you do Mister Corman, and thanks..." because we 
made this stuff for Ted Coodley. He was the make-up artist on "Haunted Palace". That was the first thing we did. 
We made these awful foam pieces for people to wear and a lot of them Ted just hurriedly glued on and even covered 
the edges with wax and all kinds of stuff. They looked just AWFUL in stills, and in the movie too! But that was 
the first AIP set I was on, "Haunted Palace". Then we did the mask of Peter for "Comedy of Terrors".

Terry: So, going back to your music career, how did you get started?

Verne: The first thing I was doing was climbing up on the piano bench and picking out melodies on our piano. Then 
I studied classical piano. Then I got interested in organ and then Korla Pandit came along and I was just 
fascinated with what he was doing and the mystique of it all. There's this guy with a turban and big beautiful 
almond eyes, staring hypnotically into the camera, but never speaking a word. He just played mysterious stuff on
the organ and piano, doing some really far out drum effects and other things on an electronic instrument. 

Terry: Yeah. He was way ahead of his time.

Verne: WAY ahead! Oh, he was such an innovator. He was so far ahead of synthesizers! I wouldn't be surprised if 
the synthesizers weren't developed from what they heard him do on the organ. Years, years, years, years later when
he started playing synthesizer, he put everybody to shame. He was a natural musician. He would sit down and play 
something you'd never heard before. He was great.

Terry: What other CDs of yours would you like to talk about? You've got a CD out of circus calliope music right?

Verne: I'd like to talk about all of them. I'm very proud of the Calliope album right now because it's in the top 
10 in the United Kingdom in children's albums!

Terry: I was very excited to hear about that album because where do you find music like that that's really 
authentic? You know?

Verne: At Electric Lemon Records!

Terry: That's right!

Verne: Where else?

Terry: And you're actually on two labels, correct?

Verne: Electric Lemon and Dejavu Records! 

Terry: So that works out well for you?

Verne: It's fine with me! My funny stuff , and my spooky stuff, is all on Electric Lemon.

Terry: They've got a great website, by the way.

Verne: They do! Isn't that great? Yeah, it's very impressive. All the credit goes to Kelly Mann, Bob Zraick, and 
Roy Zerchan. Then Dejavu Records is my serious stuff. There's really two of me!

Terry: Well isn't there two of everybody?

Verne: There are!

Terry: Like Stan Freberg.

Verne: You got your yin and your yang, yeah.

Terry: There's two of him too.

Verne: No, there's five of him! He's WAAAY out there.

Terry: *Laughs* What do you think is the one thing that you've done that you're most proud of? For one thing, if 
it wasn't for you, we wouldn't have the great masks and everybody would still be wearing those crappy plastic 
masks with the plastic bodies.

Verne: No, those came along afterwards. Yeah, we did the rubber first, but the plastic came from France. That was
not long after, maybe a few years after.

Terry: I don't suppose you could pick just one thing you'd like to be most remembered for?

Verne: I'd like to be most remembered whenever you're planning a free lunch or dinner.

Terry: I wanted to ask you about Forry. What do you think about Forry?

Verne: I think he's out of his mind. *Laughs* I don't know. I keep telling him to get rid of all that crap around
the house.....his very valuable collection, which of course it is......I guess he's sold off quite a bit, but he's
STILL got a ton! No, I love Forry. Everybody loves Forry. I love to go to his birthday parties and bad mouth him, 
and he loves that, I think. Although, he didn't invite me back to his last party!

Terry: Well maybe that's why!

Verne: I think it's because he's deaf now and he couldn't hear me anyway. He doesn't like to read lips so he said,
"You know, I don't need him. I can't hear him so who needs him?" 

Terry: And he dresses so suave, like we talked about, with the smoking jacket.

Verne: Oh...

Terry: Looks a lot like Vincent Price.

Verne: No he doesn't! Not a thing! Not now, not then, not ever! Not even! They both had a mustache. That was it.
Nothing more. Nevermore. 

Terry: But you're still real good friends with him and Jim today, right?

Verne: Oh yeah. I talk to Forry every now and then, and I talk to Jim every single morning of every single day 
and have for the last forty plus years.

Terry: It helps a lot to be friends because then you know he's not really going to sue you.

Verne: He doesn't have to. He's loaded! He calls EVERYBODY collect! THAT'S why he's got so much MONEY! No phone 
bills!!!

Terry: Does he remind you at all of Roger Corman, because Corman was a cheapie?

Verne: No. No, no no. Jim reminds me of Jack Benny.

Terry: Ok. Can't say anymore than that!

Verne: Yeah! I think of the men I love, Jim is #1, just because he is Jim Warren. I never met anybody like him 
ever and I've met a lot. A man's a man. A woman is something special, but a man is pretty much a man. You see 
one pig, you've seen them all. We're all chauvinists, but Jim... There's just absolutely nobody like Jim. I think
Hugh Hefner had Jim followed so that he could be like Jim. *Laughs* Jim thinks it's the other way around, but 
it's not. I think Carey Grant had Jim followed so that Carey Grant could be like him. I think Peter Lawford always
wanted to be Jim. All these guys. Jim was the original Playboy! A lot of people don't know that, but he was. Hugh 
Hefner was trying to do a monster magazine when Jim was trying to do a girly magazine.

Terry: He was? I didn't know that.

Verne: Way back when! Then Hef said, "Nah, I'll do something with girls." and the girly magazine Jim did which 
was called "After Hours" or "After Dark" or something like that belly'd-up and he had nickels and dimes left. 
He said, "I got one more shot." He met Forry at a sci-fi convention I think, and he said to Forry, "I'm thinking
about doing a monster magazine." Forry said, "Well, I've got all the pictures." Jim said, "Well, I can make it 
fly." Jim Warren took that magazine out and sold it to a market that absolutely had no frame of reference what 
so ever. "Famous Monsters of Filmland" was born because of Jim Warren, because as fabulous a collection as Forry
had, Forry had that collection all of his life and nobody else was interested. Forry hadn't done that much with 
it, but when Jim came along, the earth moved. 

Terry: I'm sure Universal was very cooperative?

Verne: Eventually, but in the beginning everybody was gun shy of him because there was just nobody interested in 
this kind of thing. Universal went through a kind of little period of it's own, but their monster movies I think 
pretty much kept the doors open. Later on when I went to work for Universal, Mr. Wasserman wasn't keen about 
associating the monsters with Universal, and wanted to kind of get away from that and have other things be 
featured...

Terry: Like they do today.

Verne: Well, pretty much so, I guess, yes.

Terry: They don't want to hang onto that heritage too much.

Verne: They really don't. I mean, it's there. They did The Legacy Collection but that was to promote "Van Helsing".
There's a "Frankenstein's Castle" and "Dracula's Castle" toy set now that you can buy that's like Franklin Mint 
quality and things like that, but... I can understand where they're coming from. They try and keep everything on 
an even keel, but they really didn't want to over-do the monsters. Yet, I was there to do "Land of 1,000 Faces" 
and we featured monsters in that because that's what Jay Stein wanted. He was the head of the tour. If it weren't
for Jay Stein there wouldn't have been a Universal Studio tour, and Jay Stein brought in Terry Winnick who was 
and still is absolutely fantastic too. Terry and Jay put that whole tour together. Then they found me and they 
had me come in and do "Land of 1,000 Faces" which was the first make-up show to ever play to more than 100 people
at once. I think our first crowds were 1500 or 1700 people. What we did on stage we had to do so they could all 
see it. We did the Frankenstein and a new Bride of Frankenstein which Bob Zraick and I developed it so we could 
do the makeups in ten minutes. Keith Crary and Marcos "Zapata" Barragan and Nick Pagliaro were the original make
-up artists. They did those make-ups in ten minutes! Bob Schiffer didn't believe me. I got up in front of the 
union one night and I said, "We do these make-ups in ten minutes." He said, " You can't do those make-ups in ten
minutes. That's impossible! It took Jack Pierce three hours." I said, "Come to the show Bob. We do them in ten 
minutes!" He did, and he took it back! It'd never been done before, and it's never been done since, but we did 
the same thing similarly when we did "Castle Dracula" which we played to 2500 people 12 times a day, with three
casts of Dracula, Renfield, and the Incredible Hulk. All the rest were tourists. We'd pull them out of line and
bring them in and make them up like Frankenstein, the Bride of Frankenstein and The Wolfman. That was in May of
1980 and "Land of 1,000 Faces" was created back in 1975. 

Terry: Would you ever approach them to do anything like that now?

Verne: It didn't work that way. They approach me, but now? These days? Nah! Jay Stein isn't there anymore. He's 
gone. Terry Winnick's gone. There's nobody there that was there when I was there so Universal doesn't even know 
who I am! I'll be honest with you. The "Land of 1,000 Faces" was enough for me and it was enough for them too. 
Jay said, "I'll never have him in here again." I said, "I'll never go back there again." Then about five years 
later they decided to do "Castle of Dracula" and Jay said to Terry, "Who can do this?" Terry said, "That guy you
don't want to come back again." Jay said, "Oh, alright! Hire him!" So Arthur Kennard called me, my agent, and he
said, "Guess what?" I said, "What?" He said, "Universal wants you back again." I said, "I wouldn't go back to 
work for them again unless they were paying me twice as much and had a limo pick me up every day." and son of a
bitch... Arthur got them to pay me three times what they paid me before, and then the next thing I heard was the
knock of a limousine driver on my front door!

Terry: There you go! 

Verne: I think I was the first person who ever set foot on Universal soil at that time that wrote his own contract.
I have a copy of that contract that Arthur Kennard put together with me. He was amazed too. Arthur put the deal 
together. That's what happened to me and the second time around was a charm because we all fell in love with each
other and made wonderful things happen with that. Then I did some other concepts for them too.

Terry: Even though you had problems at first, it had to be special for you to be working there because you loved 
those movies so much, the old classic horror films. 

Verne: I loved those movies and Nick Marcellino, who was the head of the make-up department after Bud left, 
recommended me to the tour the first time around. They said, "Who can do it?" and he said, "Well, I'll tell 
you. There's only one guy that knows make-up and Universal's history and is an entertainer too, the way you 
want, and that's Verne Langdon." At the time, I was what they called a "triple-threat." Now, I just threaten 
once! *Laughs* Today every fan knows the same stuff I knew back then, but in those days I wasn't a fan, and I 
was doing this stuff for a living. I loved it yes, but I just had a keen interest in it. That was what I did. 

Terry: Any one particular memory of working at Universal?

Verne: Once at the end of a very long arduous day, I was walking alone from the back lot back to my office, along
a dusty set street, and the orange October moon was setting behind the hills of Hollywood that surrounded 
Universal. Way up there, along the ridge of that hill, in the distance,I could see roof peaks and what looked 
like pine trees against this enormous smoky-gold Hollywood sunset, and I stopped and just stared at it. It 
brought to mind the Carpathian Mountain range in Dracula, and I thought to myself, I wonder how often Bela, 
and Lon Sr. and Jr., and Boris, and all the others walked this street, this time of day, and saw the same 
thing? I was doing what they did, unintentionally, virtually walking in their footsteps, seeing another great
Hollywood sunset. I'll never forget that moment. Ever.

Terry: What an experience.

Verne: It's etched in my memory.

Terry: I can imagine. So now you're just enjoying life and putting your CDs out?

Verne: I put a CD out now and then, and certainly am enjoying life VERY much. La Dolce Vita! Cha-cha-cha!.

Terry: Is that going to be it for you? The CDs or maybe a book?

Verne: We're working on a book. 

Terry: At least you remember things! A lot of people I interview don't remember stories.

Verne: Oh, I have a fairly, fairly good memory, Wally. *Laughs* I've done a lot of stuff and there's other things
I still want to do, that I will eventually get around to.

Terry: Like what?

Verne: I won't tell you! *Laughs* No really, there is stuff I want to do. First of all, somewhere, some how, there
has to be a Trader Verne's Tiki Lounge. We've got to have that. We have a website that's Trader Verne's Tiki Lounge
and there's actually a couple of very very very very rich people in Las Vegas that are really interested in doing 
this. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

Terry: So you mean a real store?

Verne: No, not a store, a lounge. A bar! Yeah, and of course I could be there having Navy Grogs every night! Just 
get sloshed and crawl around on the floor, and that would be real pretty!

Terry: You could write songs like Jimmy Buffet!

Verne: Nobody can write songs like Jimmy Buffet except Jimmy Buffet! But Trader Verne's Tiki Lounge is a very 
strong possibility, and we've already got the Trader Verne Zombie Mugs. That's a beginning. And yes, of course 
we'll have a buffet. *Laughs*

Terry: Yes, your Zombie mug, which you can see talk on your website!

Verne: Which you can see talk on my website! AND we have a recipe for zombies that will knock you on your ass! 
You become a zombie! If you're not dead before you have one of those, that'll kill you! We warn you, just split
it with a friend, because it's too much for one person to drink. But yeah.. you know, there's other stuff too 
that I want to do.

Terry: Is Trader Verne basically a nickname that you've always had?

Verne: Yeah, sort of. That's what they call me sometimes. Other times they call me other names. I've been called 
a LOT of names in my life! But I'm having a lot of fun. I've had a very good life so far. If the next 50 years 
are as good as the first 50...

Terry: That's great. That's the thing that your CDs represent to me... fun!

Verne: They are a lot of fun.

Terry: Because you can tell that there's fun involved and you have fun doing it.

Verne: If you don't love what you're doing, you have no business doing it what so ever, and if you set out to make
a million dollars, you won't! That's first. Second of all, you're going to make a fool of yourself in the process.
I think it's better to make a fool of yourself when there isn't any money at stake, then people can just say, 
"Well he's an idiot!" whereas if you go out and try to make money, you're just gonna spoil everything. Then people
can say you're a "FAILED idiot!" I'm not a wealthy man by Wall Street's yardstick, but I've got my health and I've
got people in my life that I love and that love me, and if that's not rich, I don't know what is. That's what 
really matters. 

Terry: You've got a great CD you sing on ["Out of Love"] and you actually sing a song that has lyrics to "Carnival
of Souls"?

Verne: Yeah, that's right! Don't hold that against me. Ok, well listen, I'm not Tony Bennett and I'm not Robert 
Goulet, but then neither is Robert Goulet! *Laughs* No, I don't mean that... Yes I do! I'm not Wayne Newton 
either but I do sing because I'm a songwriter and if I don't sing my own stuff, nobody else will either. That's
the whole psychology behind it. I'll put this out as a CD and then a real singer will hear it and say, "OH, I 
can do a LOT better than THAT! Here, give me that song!" So, that's out on a CD called "Out of Love" which is 
full of the tragedy of my life. All of my broken hearted love songs are on there including "Carnival of Souls"
which I wrote lyrics for years and years and years ago. A guy heard it not too long ago when I sent some of my
songs to him.

Terry: Was this before or after the movie was made?

Verne: The original movie? I saw that and I was driven to write the song. I said, "Somebody should write a song 
about this horrible depressing sick movie!" and I did. I watched it at 2 o'clock in the morning and I'm not 
afraid of anything, but I was afraid when I was watching that movie. It really clammed me up. Anyway, the next
day I wrote this song and the first instrumental of it was on "Vampyre At The Harpsichord". That's where it 
appeared first and then "Music for Magicians". I did it with the pipe organ and the calliope, with my left 
hand on the organ and my right hand on the calliope, playing them simultaneously. Then I did a demo of some
stuff one day over at Capitol and I said, "You know what? I like that song, and I'll do the lyrics." So I sang
it and then it wound up on a demo tape. I didn't do anything with it. I put it away, and years later, a few 
years ago, a friend of mine called and he's doing a film. He says, "Somebody sent me your songs. Maybe I can 
use one for a theme or something." I sent him three or four things and "Carnival of Souls" was on there. I 
thought, "Oh, that's too depressing." but I sent it. He called me and went nuts over it. He says, "OH! It's
a great song. It's great lyrics. We're going to use it for the theme of the picture and we're going to name
the picture 'Carnival of Souls'!" It has nothing to do with the original "Carnival of Souls" but that's what
it's going to be. 

Terry: Now you have a lot of CDs that are just straight serious music, but a lot of your stuff is quirky. I take 
it you really enjoy that kind of genre?

Verne: I'm a quirky kind of guy! 

Terry: Yes, well as you said, you do it for yourself! If everyone else likes it, great!

Verne: Well I do, yeah, yeah and there's stuff like "Music for Zombies" which has zombie symphony and three 
movements of it which was actually music I composed and they used for "Castle Dracula" when we did it at Universal,
but I own the publishing on it so I can do anything I want to with it. That's what that's from, and it's a huge 46 
piece orchestra playing a simple theme I wrote. It's just the biggest thrill in the world to hear an orchestra 
doing your stuff. People are grabbing onto some of my things and I'm really glad they are, like there's a dance 
troupe, I think up in San Francisco, is using a few of my things in their recitals. So that's kind of nifty!

Terry: That's right. So, people can see your CDs on the company's websites (www.electriclemon.com and 
www.dejavu-record-co.com) and you're sold on eBay, right?

Verne: We're on eBay, Amazon.com, CD Universe, CD Now, iTunes, Napster, Borders, Barnes and Noble, eMusic, MSN, 
Real/Rhapsody, Sony Connect, Wal-Mart Liquid Audio, Music-Net/AOL, Yahoo Music Unlimited, Virgin Digital, FYE, 
Musicmatch, Starbucks, Peer Impact, Buy Music, AT+T Wireless, Audio Lunchbox, Download Punk, Next Radio, C digix,
Pure Tracks, MyMPO, Bollyvista, MusicNow, Ruckus, BestBuy.com, Karmadownload, Musica360, Street CDs, MisRolas, 
and Reggae Country. Also Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Germany, France, Switzerland, and everywhere else in the world!
Your favorite music source has my music.

Terry: On eBay what's your seller name?

Verne: Astrotiki, which is one of Kelly Mann's and my little projects together.

Terry: So just search for Astrotiki.

Verne: Astrotik,i and you can find all of our neat stuff, or just look for "The Phantom of the Organ" or "The 
Vampyre At The Harpsichord" or "Circus Clown Calliope" or "Out of Love" or sometimes if you just put Verne 
Langdon in and mark that little square underneath the search to search all headings. Or go to 
www.vernelangdon.com. Everything is all there on that site in one place!

Terry: And you say you lead a simple life!

Verne: Yes. Well, pretty much. You should spend your life as uncomplicated as you possibly can under the 
circumstances. Don't get overcome with your ego. You have to realize that you're not as important to anyone else 
as you are to yourself. If you can find a little island someplace, I recommend it highly. Living on the beach was 
a very good thing for me because I was able to zone in on that undulation of the ocean and it's fantastic. Shortly 
after the Thailand tsunami hit, I moved to about eight minutes down the beach but slightly off the beach. It's in 
a secluded little area. It's like a little English cottage and I've got more privacy. There are fountains around 
the place, and it's really quiet. That to me is so important.

Terry: It is!

Verne: Do you remember Wayland Flowers, the puppeteer that did Madame?.

Terry: Oh, I loved him!

Verne: I lived up in Laurel Canyon at the time, and he came up one day because he wanted me to write for his act.
Up where we lived was very quiet, and Wayland sat there for about 15 minutes and then he said, "How can you stand
this?" I didn't know what he meant. I said, "Stand WHAT? What are you talking about?" He says, "Listen! You don't
hear anything!" I said, "Yeah?" He said, "Well, I'm from New York." and at the time he was living right on 
Hollywood Blvd, where there isn't a moment of quiet 24 hours a day. He said, "I need that noise around me." I 
said, "Boy, I sure don't." So there are people that really have to have that, or have to have two TVs going at 
once, or two radios going at once and all that, even if they're working. I know people like that! 

Terry: Any other Wayland Flowers stories? 

Verne: Wayland was an awesome talent. He really breathed life into his character puppets, or maybe it was the other
way around. When Wayland was very ill toward the end of his life, the last time he ever performed with his great 
puppet Madame was in the hospice where he was dying. He weakly managed to get through his act, then after the 
applause faded, Madame looked at Wayland for a very long moment, then said "Gee I'm gonna miss you," and Wayland
said to Madame, "I'm going to miss you too." An artist to the end; a fun person, and a very dear, gentle man was
Wayland Flowers.

Terry: What a story! ....You knew Paul Winchell too, right?

Verne: Yes, I knew Paul Winchell very well! I loved him when he debuted on NBC in 1947 with "The Paul Winchell
/ Jerry Mahoney Show." Later, when he came out to Hollywood, he was doing a TV show with his then-wife Nina 
Russell. He did an ABC special, "Pinocchio". Jerry Marin and Harry Monty, the little people, were costumed as 
Jerry Mahoney and Knucklehead Smiff for action shots of Paul's vent figures Jerry and Knuck, walking around 
and stuff. Rudy Horvatich was Makeup Department Head at ABC back then, and he had us do masks of Jerry and 
Knuck. We made life masks of Jerry and Harry, the little people, and then did masks of Jerry Mahoney and 
Knucklehead Smiff over the small actors' life masks. Paul was Gepetto in that show. We did those masks and 
Paul loved it. He came over to the studio while we were doing it because we sculpted Jerry and Knuck and he
brought them them over for us to study. Don Post sculpted those masks of Jerry and Knuck, by the way, so it's
not like Don Post never sculpted anything. He was a damn good sculptor, but Pat Newman was better than anybody
in the whole world when it came to the monsters and other stuff. 

Terry: Was she the one that actually worked on some of the Universal horror films?

Verne: No, she didn't work in films, not back then. Later she did, though.

Terry: You had somebody that worked on the films though? 

Verne: We had Ellis Burman, who was the senior Burman, but he was a prop maker. He did masks, heads, and props. We
hired him as our lab technician. Ellis was a sweetheart. He had a wonderful talent and his sons Tommy and Ellis Jr
were in make-up. They both retired. I can't believe it because I helped get them into the business by introducing 
them to John Chambers at their father's request, and I went to Ellis Jr's retirement dinner about a year ago. Boy,
does time fly, or what? 

Terry: You worked on the "Star Wars Christmas Special" right?

Verne: I worked on the "Star Wars Christmas Special" with Mark Hamil, who is hysterically funny. A great person! 
Carrie Fisher was fun - my friend Keith Crary did her makeup - and I did Harrison Ford's makeup. Nothing to it! 
He's a trip. Everybody on those things were great, but I haven't seen the sequels. 

Terry: Oh wow! A question I've always wanted to ask you is, I've owned a few Don Post masks in my life and a lot of
them I didn't take care of too well and they're rubber rotted and pretty shot...

Verne: Sure.

Terry: But, I have the 'old vampire' mask. Are you familiar with that one and were you involved with that one? It 
was the old bald guy and he had vampire teeth. I believe it was Don Post unless I'm mistaken. I'm pretty sure it 
was, but it was called 'old vampire' or something like that, but to me it looked like Barnabus Collins.

Verne: Well it could've been. That was after I left. I left in 1968 so that would've been the people that came 
along after me. 

Terry: Oh, ok. I was curious because they called it 'old vampire' and I don't know if it's because they didn't 
want to pay royalties to Dan Curtis or "Dark Shadows" or whatever...

Verne: Maybe! Or maybe it was just a 'young vampire' who needed a transfusion! *Laughs*

Terry: But, I swear to God it was Barnabus Collins.

Verne: That's a maybe. I don't know. 

Terry: You were involved with the Tor Johnson mask though, right?

Verne: The Tor Johnson mask was my idea.

Terry: Yeah and that was one of Don Post Studio's most popular masks, right?

Verne: I said to Don, "I want to do a mask of Tor." and he said, "Why?" I said, "Because I want to do it. I love 
Tor and I want to do a lifemask for the wall, and while I'm at it I want to put out a Tor Johnson custom mask." 
and he said, "Well, fine." I did, and it was gorgeous the way we did it.Pat Newman sculpted it, and Tor was just 
thrilled out of his mind, and he was thrilled with the royalties I paid him too, which nobody else bothered to do.
It turns out that the Tor Johnson mask was the all time best seller of Don Post Studios. More than Mussolini. More
than Hitler. More than Frankenstein. More than anything! That one mask!

Terry: Now Don Post Jr., he's continuing on today, right?

Verne: He's carried on the business.

Terry: Yeah, do you think that the quality is the same as it used to be?

Verne: Their product is of a different quality now..

Terry: They're a lot thinner now.

Verne: Don Jr. is very sweet. Dan Roebuck got us together for a filmed or maybe it was a taped interview. Roebuck
put this thing together and he said, "This is going to be really great because it's going to be a history of 
monsters and I'm going to interview you and Don Post Jr. at Don Post Studios!" I said, "Fine." So, they're over
on some weird little street in Burbank and we went over there. Dante Renta set this whole thing up. He said, 
"You're going to go over there and you're going to love this." We went over there and Don came in. Now mind you,
the last time I saw Don Post Jr. he was a17 year old kid engaged to a sweet16 year old girl, and then I never saw
him again after I left Post. I never saw Don Post again. I never saw Louise again, Don's wife. I was off on other
careers and that was a thing of my past.

Terry: It just lasts about 5 years!

Verne: I'm good for about 5 years with anything! Honest to God, I am and then that's it. I have a very short 
retention span, and very little mind to go with it, but a very short retention span. 

Terry: I'm not nodding because I agree.. it's just that... *Laughs*

Verne: Oh no, it's true. It's true! I remember how good whipped cream is on gingerbread, but that's all I can 
remember. So I walked in and here's Don Post Jr., who the last time I saw him he was 17 years old looking like 
a little movie star, and is now 57 or 58 years old with a beard and bald, looking more like the little old 
winemaker *Laughs*... I said, "Oh my God, who are you?" He said, "Don't you recognize me?" I said, "Yeah I know 
it's you." Boy, the years! But ME.. why, I look exactly like I did the day I left Don Post Studios. Why I haven't 
changed at all! *Laughs*

Terry: Except the hair's shorter.

Verne: Yeah... and there's 10,000 wrinkles but whatever...

Terry: Noooo! You look great! Seriously!

Verne: It's alright! 

Terry: You look better in person than you do on your album cover of "Out of Love".

Verne: *kisses Terry on the cheek*

Terry: I've just been kissed by Verne Langdon! *Laughs*

Verne: *Laughs* And if he knows what's good for him, he'll move to the other side of the booth at this point. One 
more compliment out of you honey and we're engaged! But no, it was hysterically funny, Don Jr. and me seeing each 
other after all this time. He said, "Do you realize this is the first time you've been back to Don Post Studios 
since you left?" I said, "Yes, and if I'd had my way, I wouldn't be here now!" *Laughs* But, we had a great 
interview and if you've ever seen those shows, you'll get a kick out of them, and if you haven't, make it a point
to. They were done for the Monsters Channel (on Voom). There's 10 pieces. He did one on Bob Burns. He did one us.
He did one one Don Post Studios and everything. From a historical stand point, you should have them. It's the 
history of Don Post Studios and they're good. Don's interview went really well and mine went really well. So, 
that's where we reconnected. Then when Dan finished the shows he had a screening at the Roebuck residence. Dan 
and his gracious wife Kelly put on a great spread, and Don and I were invited and Kelly Mann and Dante, and 
others. After the screening Don Jr. Got up and said some very nice things about me. I appreciated that. His dad 
and I had a wonderful relationship nearly all the time, and we very often laughed our asses off. We had more fun 
for two partners than I think a lot of partners have.

Terry: And you haven't done anything in the mask field since your Zombie mask?

Verne: Well, Kelly Mann and I have something now called Studio Quality Masks.

Terry: Yeah, that's another whole story because he was a fan of yours, right? 

Verne: Kelly has an appreciation for my work. But no, outside of the Zombie mask, I hadn't done anything else 
really, and I only did that because I wanted something to do to help me relax at night. I did the Zpmbie and 
another mask called The Neanderthal, which is basically a caveman. 

Terry: And Kelly saw your Zombie mask on the cover of one of Jim's magazines, and the ads for it, and that's how 
he knew about you. 

Verne: That's how Kelly Mann knew about me. 

Terry: How did he get in touch with you? How did this re-do of your Zombie mask happen?

Dante Renta was another fan who had a magazine called "The Halloween Society". He and a friend had this group of 
people and he contacted me a couple of times for interviews, much like you're doing today, and somewhere along 
the line he came up for lunch one day; he's a nice man, and he comes up and takes me to lunch... or dinner... 
or takes me to the zoo. They don't want me either, but it's nice when you're elderly, people care for you more. 
Oh it's sad! It'll bring tears to your eyes! So will onions. *Laughs* But anyway, Dante came up one day and in 
the course of conversation, he said, "How would you feel...." because he knows when I let something go, I let 
it go. I mean, it's in the past! He said, "How would you feel about somebody making a mask of your Zombie?" I 
said, "Well, if I got paid for it, it'd be fine." He said, "Do you really mean that?" I said, "Yeah." I'll do 
anything for money! *Laughs* Dante said, "Well, I've got a friend in Arizona. He's a marvelous artist. His 
name is Kelly Mann, and he's a big fan of yours. He's always wanted to do a mask of the Zombie." I said, 
"Well, I'll be happy to talk to him." So Kelly emails me and we made a deal. He delivered the mask with Dante 
on Walpergisnacht, if that date means anything to you...

Terry: Not really. 

Verne: No, but it means the world to Dante Renta for some odd reason. It's a well-known Finnish witch's sabbath, 
or German thing, or some such insegrievious kind of.... I guess it's like play period for the dead. *Laughs* 
Anyhow, he put us together, and we worked on the mask over the internet! Finally we're done, and he drives from 
Arizona to West Los Angeles, picks up Dante, and up they come with the prototype of the mask! It was really very
well done. I said, "Ok." We agreed to sell a Limited Edition of 30. He brought the certificates along and we 
signed 30 certificates and that's all we made. We broke the mold after #30.

Terry: Which you can see pictures of on his website.

Verne: The website for The Mask Doctor http://www.latexmaskcentral.com/MaskDoctor.php and then there's 
www.studioqualitymasks.com

Terry: You're still involved with Kelly today right?

Verne: Yeah! Sure, I just talked to him this morning. He isn't like Jim Warren. Kelly doesn't call me collect 
every day!

Terry: But the whole thing that started this enterprise with Kelly was that as a kid he wanted to buy a Zombie 
mask and by the time he got around to wanting to buy one, they were sold out. Right?

Verne: Well isn't that too bad! *Laughs*

Terry: So he's like, "I'll make my own!"

Verne: Well, yeah and he was an enjoyer of strange and bizarre things and it doesn't get any stranger or more 
bizarre than me!

Terry: When you were a wrestler, did you travel around or did you just fight locally?

Verne: You wrestle wherever you can get it. You want to wrestle?

Terry: Uh, no.

Verne: No, ok.

Terry: I've been asked that before!

Verne: Alright... Ok! No, I've done it here and there and everywhere. I was big in Bakersfield! And just last 
night I wrestled somebody for the check. I let them win. I'm not even going to wrestle you for the check today. 
Too tired. Go ahead. You win. Pay it!

Terry: Did you ever wrestle in Illinois?

Verne: No. But neither did anybody else! Haha! 

Terry: Yes they did!

Verne: Ahh go on! You're hallucinating again.

Terry: That's where the infamous Dr. X was attacked by a fan.

Verne: Oh! Dr. X! Well that's a whole different story. He was a school teacher that gave out bad grades. That 
wasn't a fan, that was one of his students! *Laughs* But Dr. Y and Dr. Z, they never wrestled in Illinois!

Terry: Okay, okay. Now in your involvement with make-up, you actually worked on the "Planet of the Apes" films 
right?

Verne: I worked on a number of them!

Terry: How come you were uncredited?

Verne: Well so were the other 200 make-up artists that worked on them. I mean, they only give one or two credits. 
John Chambers was lucky to get a credit, and he designed the makeup! I mean, there was a time in Hollywood when 
make-up didn't even get a credit at all because the stars wanted their fans to think they were naturally 
beautiful. Well, they're not! That's why they didn't give an Academy Award for make-up for so long. The Academy
gave Bill Tuttle an Honorary Academy Award in 1864 for his work on Tony Randall in the 7 Faces of Dr. Lao, but 
I was practially single-handedly responsible for the Academy giving John Chambers his Oscar, and for opening up
a category for makeup artists and hairstylists, because I bombarded Fay Kanin with letters until she finally 
moved the Academy to give John a special Oscar for "Planet" and that opened the door for a special category for
make-up and hair and that I take credit for. Howard Smith, a long-time veteran makeup artist, was the business 
rep of the local at that time. Howard and I were friends, and Howard told me, "I'm very impressed with what you 
did for the local Verne, but if you ever expect any thanks for this, forget it. You won't get it. Because nobody 
will thank you for it. They'll all think it was their idea." I said, "I know you're right." and to this day I've 
remembered that, so I haven't brooded audibly because they didn't give me an Oscar for thinking it up! But, I'm 
entirely responsible for that category.

Terry: So do you think guys like you are becoming put out to pasture because everything's CG now?

Verne: Nah. They can't put me out to pasture, because I left makeup years ago, but I don't think make-up artists 
in the profession today will ever be put out to pasture. Some make-up artists should be, but no, actors will 
always need make-up. 

Terry: You know, I just happened to think, why wouldn't I expect a make-up artist to look so good?

Verne: Yeah! You don't know how much time I spent getting ready for today! After the hair piece goes on, then I 
have to glue little pieces here and all this gets shaved here of course, then pulled up tight. Then I put my 
false teeth in and these aren't my real eyelashes either! My nose is much smaller too. This one's just rubber...
*Laughs*

Terry: You even worked with Sid and Marty Krofft and you were a puppeteer. What did you work on?

Verne: I worked on a show they created called "Les Poupees De Paris" which was an adult puppet show. The puppets 
actually made love on stage!

Terry: It was a stage show rather than a TV show then?

Verne: For adults, yes, and they opened in a place out in the Valley called The Rafters. People like Mae West and 
Liberace did the voices for their portrait puppets. They did a great marionette of Mae and then she was upset 
because the nipples on her breasts were exposed. She made them cover them up. 

Terry: So in other words you're saying to everybody that Mae really had more morals then what everybody believed?

Verne: Oh yeah! She was a very highly principled woman.

Terry: She was great at the tease.

Verne: She wouldn't even date a married man unless his wife was out of town! Yeah! *Laughs* No, she was. She had 
pretty high standards. Of course, I was a very tall person and she wasn't, so.. but yeah, she was something! That
gal was just great! She was a great friend to the end.

Terry: You knew her how long?

Verne: I met her when I was 14. My father insisted I see her in "Diamond Lil" in San Francisco in 1954 I think it
was. I said, "Who is Mae West, and why are we going to see her?" He said, "She's a classic and she won't be around
forever." Four years later he was killed in a plane crash, and Mae West lived to 1980. Mae and I became good 
friends. I was one of 100 people invited to her funeral. She and Bela Lugosi were the only two people I've ever
seen who's remains looked perfectly natural in a casket; Bela because of the Dracula thing - he was always lying
in a casket in his movies, and Mae because she was always made up, and always coiffed just so, and always had 
beautiful housecoats or evening gowns or whatever on. Edith Head designed all of her stuff. It was awesome. They
had the service in the Little Chapel of the Shepard and His Flock or whatever that chapel is over at Forest Lawn 
- maybe Heather's wee Kirk - and it had rained that morning. We all got there just after it stopped. We went in 
and there was Mae's remains in state and there were these three glorious windows over on this side of the chapel.
She was wearing a gown she wore in "Sextet" that Edith Head designed and as the service started and Dr. Lloyd J.
Ogilvie did the eulogy the sunlight started breaking through the clouds and coming through the window. It hit her
just so that those rhinestones and beading on her gown started to glisten and it actually looked like she was 
breathing. The whole congregation gasped because it was like, "My God, she's going to sit up and say 'Mmmmm...So
glad to see y'all again! Aw! Thanks for comin'! Mmmmm. Aw! Oh!'" But she didn't, and we finished the service and
went home.

Terry: Did she ever talk to you about W.C. Fields? I heard she hated him?

Verne: She loathed him with a passion. She did not like alcohol. She didn't like it and she wouldn't have anything
to do with it. Her sister was an alcoholic. That's one reason she so hated it. She didn't drink and never did. I 
read something a while ago where somebody said they found a letter written by one of her employees that said he 
served her ten cans of beer a day. That was Grayson, her secretary, who wasn't writing about Mae. He was writing 
about Beverly, Mae's sister, who was an alcoholic. Mae kept Grayson out at the ranch to keep Beverly from drinking
herself to death. Also I think her brother may have had a problem with alcohol. So with Field's reputation, Mae 
had it in her contract when she did "My Little Chickadee" with him at Universal that "if he comes on the set with
a bottle or he's been drinking, I go home". So they made it very clear to him not to be drinking and everything 
was fine until one day when they were doing the crowd stuff and she came on the set and he was out there just 
smashed. She took one look at him and he saw her, and Eddie Cline the film's director was standing right there,
and Fields tipped his hat to Mae and waddled off. He went home so they could do her stuff. She loathed him.

Terry: That's probably why they only did one film together.

Verne: Right. She wouldn't do another one, and he did some very underhanded things on that film.

Terry: Like what?

Verne: Mae told me W.C. got his name added to the title credits for writing the screenplay, when it was Mae who 
wrote the screenplay for the film and was to have a solo credit. It's all detailed, if you're really interested, 
in Mae West: A Biography, an excellent book by Stan Musgrove and George Eels, all about her. They were very close,
personal friends of hers. They really lay the whole thing out! Her life, actually. But she was a true original ..
what you saw was what you got. 

Terry: Another big influence in your life was Korla Pandit?

Verne: Yes! 

Terry: Tell us about him. Not a lot of people know who he is except people who are from here because of his work 
on KTLA.

Verne: He was one of my teachers. Californians know who he was because he was a pioneer in the early days of 
television, when ten minutes was a show and when if you had anything going for you and wanted to be part of this,
Klaus Landsberg would hire you because his was the only TV station in town. 

Terry: You're talking about KTLA right?

Verne: Yep, KTLA, which was an offshoot of Paramount Pictures and they hired Klaus to develop television because 
he was a genius. He did, and he created the station. He saw Korla at a fashion show and he said, "I'll hire you. 
You can have your own television show, but you have to do the music for a puppet show too." Korla said, "Fine." 
So the show was "Time For Beany" with Stan Freberg and Daws Butler. Bob Clampett's show which was originally 
puppets. Years later, I went to work for Stan Freberg, and did voice-overs for the Ice Capades with Daws Butler!
But, Korla was one of my music teachers. 

Terry: And "Beany and Cecil" came out of that show, right?

Verne: And "Beany and Cecil" came out of that show. 

Terry: Now when you say Korla was one of your teachers, do you mean in music or spiritualism or life?

Verne: Music. Piano and organ. He was an excellent teacher! I got to know him and his wife Beryl and the kids, 
Shari and Koram, very well. 

Terry: He was from the states, right? A lot of people thinks he was from India.

Verne: He wasn't from India. Korla was born John Roland Redd, in St. Louis, Missouri. He was the son of a pastor 
of the Second Baptist Church. He and Beryl created a marvelous facade. Everybody in Hollywood does, you know. As 
I wrote in my introduction for his eulogy on the Official Korla Pandit website: "In Hollywood Doris Mary Anne Von
 Kappellhoff, Roy Scherer, Harold Leek, Ruby Stevens, Marion Francis Morrison, Leonard Slye, Frances Gumm, Jacob 
Cohen, Greta Gustafsson, and Archibald Alexander Leach became, respectively, Doris Day, Rock Hudson, Howard Keel, 
Barbara Stanwyck, John Wayne, Roy Rogers, Judy Garland, Rodney Dangerfield, Greta Garbo, and Cary Grant. So it is 
only logical that John Roland Redd would first morph into Juan Rolando, a beturbaned Mexican, then Korla Pandit, 
the excitingly-romantic, marvelously-mysterious man of music from India! As Korla loved saying, "Why Not?!!" Korla
Pandit was born John Roland Redd and then he morphed into Juan Rolando and then he became Korla Pandit. He was the
hottest thing on television. He was sexier than Rudolph Valentino and made an enormous impact in the day when 
television was brand new. We created a Korla Pandit website and it's run by my friend in the Netherlands, Freek 
Kinkelaar. He's a member of the band Bee Queen. 

Terry: You produced a great tribute CD to Korla too, right?

Verne: Yes. "Remembering Korla Pandit". It was Korla's favorite album of all the albums he recorded. He told me 
so. The pipe organ Korla played on this CD is the one I used for Milt's seances at the Castle. It's really an 
excellent retrospective of Korla's music and career. I'm very proud of it. Korla's widow Beryl loves it too.

Terry: You've got Korla's life story on his website.

Verne: David de Clue compiled that. David is a successful attorney in St. Louis, and has studied the geneology of 
his whole family for the last 30 years. As it turned out, Korla Pandit is a member of David's family tree! David 
didn't know about Korla, and I didn't know about David. Rhonda Hall, one of David's cousins, gave him the heads
-up to Korla's website. He took one look and said, "My God, we're related." and then he wrote to me. I furnished
him information, and he furnished me information, and he wrote a biography on Korla that's just awesome! It 
belongs on the website! If you're ever interested in the real Korla Pandit story, it's all there at 
www.korlapandit.com

Terry: I've actually been there. It's a very beautiful website.

Verne: Yes, really. Korla would love it, actually. So yes. Korla was a dear friend. 

Terry: Did you ever go to drive-in movie theatres?

Verne: We did a few times when I was little. We saw "Mocambo" with Gable and Ava Gardner. Oh, like four or five 
drive-in movies when I was a kid.

Terry: Why do you think the drive-ins are all gone?

Verne: They needed the proprty for multi-plex theaters? I don't know.....

Terry: You were involved with spook shows....why do you think we don't have any spook shows on stage now a days?

Verne: Spook shows? A spook show on stage? The audience would kill the act. They'd murder them. Are you kidding? 
Look at these kids in mosh pits and all the rest of that. I wouldn't get up in front of a gang like that. Pull a
guy out of a casket? Get real! Noooo way! Not a chance! I wouldn't get in a cage of lions either. Nah! But, spook
shows were wonderful things. After Jack Baker, the Great spook show pioneer who played theaters across the 
country as "Dr. Silkini" passed away, some magician bought Jack's show, "the Silkini show." I don't know the 
guy's name, but he took it out on the road about 14-15 years ago. He played a little theatre in Hollywood on 
Las Palmas for about ten days and it just tanked. 

Terry: Did you ever do your own spook show? I know you provided masks for other spook shows.

Verne: I AM a spook show! Yeah, I did a couple of them. I did a lot of magic shows too when I was very very young 
and I made good money doing those. But that was back then. You know, way back you just talked to the manager of 
the theatre and talk him into it. He'd say, "Sure kid. get up there and do it."

Terry: It's really hard for me to accept that really that stuff wouldn't be accepted now.

Verne: I can accept it!

Terry: That's like, I asked Price if he was going to do another horror film and he said No because "have you seen
the news?" He said, "That's more horrifying than what I can do."

Verne: Yeah, it is. It is, and that's why professional wrestling is in a nose dive right now. It goes up every 7 
years and then it comes down. Everytime there's a war or there's any unrest in the world, it tanks. 

Terry: Well wrestling's not what it used to be, is it?

Verne: It's not at all what it used to be, but again neither is "The Phantom of the Opera,' but at least they're 
still doing it. That's all you can be thankful for. 

Terry: Werewolves aren't what they used to be either. Does it irritate you that every time you see a werewolf 
movie now it looks like a wolf? It has no resemblance to a man like Chaney's did.

Verne: Let me share something with you... nothing irritates me now. Really, it doesn't.

Terry: Yeah, there you go! I feel calmer just being around you!

Verne: *Laughs* I'm like getting drunk only I don't have a hangover the next day. I get over in the right hand 
lane and I go 70 miles an hour, or 65, or whatever the little sign says, because I believe in those little 
signs. I'm over in the right hand lane, so they don't honk. They go around me. I let them kill themselves. I
don't deal with it and nothing's that important. 

Terry: You don't get upset. So it's not you shooting people on the highway?

Verne: Not me! No, I don't get upset about things. Cancer. Now that's something to get upset about. Aids. That's
something to get upset over, especially when people go around aware that they've got it and give it to others. 
That's something to get upset over. Don't yell at your computer because it's not going online fast enough. Don't
get upset at your wife because she bought a new dress. Don't get upset at your husband because he wants to see 
the same movie twice. Just thank God that you're still alive, that you're here on this beautiful earth, in this
fabulous country we live in, and that we're blessed the way we are. And, that we're still healthy. Those are the
things that matter. Nothing else matters.

Terry: What do you want to say to all those people that have supported you all of these years and bought your CDs
and masks? People that think you're just the cherry on the sundae?

Verne: Well, that would be three or four of the people out there and I'd like to thank all three or four of you 
for supporting me all these years! Could you send a little more money next time? *Laughs* I really am very 
grateful and I'm very happy that whatever caused you your madness, that you have the same madness that I have
apparently. I'm happy for you that you have that madness, and I hope it serves you as well as it's served me.
I mean this when I say it, from the day I was born until today, every single day I've lived has gotten better
than the day before it, with no exceptions. There have been moments that were tragic, of great sorrow, such as
when I lost my father, but as he always said to me and other people have said to me before and since, "So much
more good comes out of sadness then tragedy, and it always has." When I lost him, I lost the world. I've never
lost anything or anybody since that meant as much to me. When you have one loss like that, that puts everything
else in perspective. Then you realize, there isn't anything in life that's more important than life itself, and
to thine own self be true. Truer words were never spoken. If you love someone, tell them you love them now, 
today, because tomorrow might be too late, 

Terry: Do you think it's good that things are more accepted now because I understand back when you were making 
the masks you were receiving hell from the parents?

Verne: As Jim [Warren] says, we were crucified! PTA's were up in arms over his magazine and our masks. But I must
say, then and now, I understand the parents' concern. I thoroughly understand. And if I were a parent, I'd be 
concerned about my kids too. The older you get, the little bit better you see things, because children have a 
tendency to obsess. But, I would not be concerned today if my child loved Frankenstein. I'd be concerned today
if my kid came home and emulated some of the entertainers that are out there.

Terry: Like Marilyn Manson?

Verne: Well, I can't say because I've never seen Marilyn Manson or heard Marilyn Manson, but I've seen and heard
a few others. First of all, they're creating their kind of music and they're certainly entitled to do that. I 
would fight to the death to defend their right to do that and because they live in America they can do that 
within reason. But, I think there's some things a kid should grow into, not be assaulted by, and so I think 
maybe there are things that should be kept back a little bit until they're of age. That's only my opinion.

Terry: Well your masks were made for adults anyway.

Verne: That's true. 

Terry: It's just that the kids bought it.

Verne: That's really true. Yeah, but I always was playing with kids older than me or hanging around adults. I
never played with anybody younger than me and when I grew up I was not particularly interested in people younger
than me. It was always my age or a little bit older. 

Terry: I think that's why you're around and you're still happy, because the kid in you has never died.

Verne: Never has.

Terry: That's important.

Verne: Yeah. I carry a picture of me around in my wallet of when I was about 3 years old and I look at that every
now and again. I say, "That's the kid I have to protect." because it's a tough world and business is tough. I 
learned this when I got into the entertainment industry. Money means so much to some people, and money is very
important. It may not be in first place, but it's way ahead of what's in second place. But, your health and your
loved ones come before anything. I think a lot of people have their priorities mixed up. I don't think the guy 
with the most toys wins, but I never did, and a lot of guys with the most toys would disagree with me and that's
their prerogative. Their toys work for them and I learned. I'm selling all of my stuff on eBay. Almost all of it!

Terry: Is that hard?

Verne: No, because I got to a point where, when I moved into my new place which is even better than the last 
place I lived in, it just didn't allow me to hang gargoyles all over. It just wasn't conducive to that. It 
looks like an A-frame designed by Frank Lloyd Wright and it's simplicity. It hit me like a breath of fresh air
when I saw it. I said, "I wanna live here!" So I've got all this shit, for lack of a better word, that I've 
been carrying around for years. What do you do with it? So I thought, "Well, I can throw it out. I can give 
it to friends..." and I did. I gave a few pieces away to people.

Terry: It seemed to be important to you that you sold it to somebody that it mattered to, right?

Verne: Oh it really helped! You don't know when you put it up for sale who's going to buy it. There were a few 
people I was very concerned would buy it because I knew what they would do with it. But this man who bought the
Lugosi life mask, if I had found him, I would've picked him, which is a tradition in my life. Everything has 
been there as I would want it and it's spooky.

Terry: You must have a guardian angel.

Verne: I believe so. I really do. And I was blessed with wonderful parents who really loved me and wanted me to 
have the life I wanted to have. They said, "Whatever you want to do is fine with us, just be the best you can at
it." and I've honored that request. What a vote of confidence, you know? God bless them! 

Terry: It seems that you were always satisfied with what you did or you wouldn't have moved onto another project.

Verne: Yes, that's true.

Terry: I don't think you would've left if you didn't feel you'd done your best.

Verne: No, you're right. Yeah, when you're done and you say, "Well I can't really do anything more with that." 
then it's time. What are you going to do? Sit there and make Frankenstein masks your whole life? I couldn't. 

Terry: Except you check your calendar and make sure it's been a five year span!

Verne: Five year span! I remember the day! Don Post and I used to talk about his son coming in and joining us in
the business. As much as I loved the kid, I said, "I can't.. I don't need another partner and I think that Don 
and I have kind of really grown apart because he's in the prop business and I'm in the mask business. I don't 
see this going anywhere." One day I walked down from the office down to the spray booth and I looked at these
rows of molds that we had. I looked at the molds and I thought, "Do you really want to be here 10 years from 
now?" And I said to myself, "No, I don't." Then Johnny Chambers hired me on "Planet of the Apes" and then he 
took Pat Newman with him too. We were over there at Twentieth Century Fox, on "Planet of the Apes," getting a
paycheck every week which is more than I got at Don Post Studios some weeks. We made sure everybody else was 
paid, but many were the weeks Don and I went home without paychecks. I said to myself, "You know what? This 
is not a bad way to go!" So, I kept working at Fox, then later went on staff at CBS, and meanwhile I said to
Don Post, "There's no point in me keeping the business, because if I'm not at the business all the time, then
I'm not controlling it, and I can't do that." Don and I had grown apart, and the proverbial bloom had entirely
left the rose. That's when I sold my "lion's share" back to Don Post. 

Terry: You haven't suffered any health problems from being around all those chemicals and the latex have you?

Verne: I've suffered health problems over things I've done, not things I've breathed. *Laughs* Sure! But I had a 
wonderful time doing it, and a lot of things are behind me now that I wouldn't care to indulge in again. But it's
now, particularly the last couple of years, that my life is really starting to get interesting.

Terry: The best is yet to come too!

Verne: I have that feeling. 

Terry: Well, it's been great talking to you. I really appreciate it. We thank you for this conversation! 

Verne: Well I thank you for caring enough to take me out to feed me, and if anybody else would like someone to 
come to their house with funny stories and weird CDs, write to me at this publication, and I'll be right over!

Terry: And he can do a life mask!

Verne: Haha! Yeah! And I'll do your life mask, I'll tell your fortune, we'll have a couple drinks, and then..
who knows?!!!